Gavin Ashendon - Chooses the Public Square Over Priesthood
"When I became a Roman Catholic (which I did because I came to believe that what it taught about itself was true, and because Protestantism was slipping away from its capacity to read Scripture honestly), so many people turned to that old proverb “Be careful you don’t jump from the frying pan into the fire."
However:
"The Roman Catholic Church has suffered the same propagandisation of their people as the Protestants have. Secularism, relativism, and the progressive collectivist politics from the Left have swept through the education system and the media, producing great pressure to change Christianity into the image of a form of cultural Marxism.
"It’s everywhere. It affects whole swathes of Catholic bishops just as much as laity. Maybe more! But there are good reasons for thinking (though this is not usually acknowledged or seen by Protestants) that protected by the Magisterium (the collective assessment of the work of the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus to protect and lead the Church over the years) the Catholic Church has the resources to see off this explosive cultural and philosophical revolution."
But it would seem he believes these forces are stronger than the promise of Christ and the Holy Spirit:
"But the balance of things changed when Pope Francis appeared. Where the rubber hits the road here, is in the account of how the Catholic Church’s invitation to ordain me to the Catholic priesthood got caught up by a change of political weather. But this is not about me. It affects all of us. It is a theological or spiritual weather event. What happened to me is simply a small window and is happening everywhere.
"Having changed my mind from being deeply sympathetic to same-sex attracted minorities, I saw them instead as fronting an assault on the Christian conscience. The minorities were soon to be reversed. Now it is Christians, not gays, who are persecuted for believing that heterosexual marriage is the glue that God intended to hold our communities together. A movement that pretended equality had ambitions to destroy Christian sexual and social ethics. And my place in the body of Christ?
To my surprise I began to be given a voice and a platform in the public square to represent orthodox Christianity.
"I had hoped that this role in the body of Christ might be congruent with what I thought was a vocation to be a Catholic priest ... The Church in our day was surrounded by a deep, corrosive and dangerous intellectual and moral heresy, which I thought I understood and knew needed public repudiation. And the public platforms that were being given to me day after day allowed me to do just that."
But:
"{W)ho knew that Bergoglio’s election would precipitate a crisis in the Catholic Church between traditionalists and progressives that I too would get caught up in?
"Pope Francis has a thing about stuffy traditionalists. I’ve met my fair share of condescending, superior, clergy who make you feel less than you are. I can sympathise. But rightly or wrongly he has turned his dislike of them into a papal crusade against all traditionalists. But it is the traditionalists who are holding the Church to its timeless values, faithful to the Gospel and tradition. And so the dominoes fall. It’s bad enough when Christians are cancelled in the public square, but much worse when they are silenced by the Church."
Define "Traditionalist". Pope Francis' strategy for leading the Church was clearly stated as early as 2013:
"But I also make waves. I think they are waves that serve Jesus and the Gospel well, but they are waves. So I was alarmed when I was told that to move forward to be re-trained would require being silenced. “It would never be prudent to permit our seminarians to assume such a high-profile media role when they are discerning a move towards ordination."
Was this really an unreasonable request?
"There are two ways of seeing a platform in the public square. One is an opportunity to speak for Christ; the other, a distraction and a cause of controversy and turbulence. A large domino fell across my way. Had God given me the voice, the influence and the platform only to close it down? We don’t have enough priests. But perhaps we have fewer prophetic voices saying 'thus saith the Lord'.
"It’s not clear yet how the struggle in Catholicism is going to pan out. The progressives are trying to use a clumsily engineered consultation process called the Synodal Way to spearhead the cause of feminists and gay activists, in their campaign to take over both Church and world and make the Church give up revelation and heaven and reflect secularism and utopia instead."
But it is clear Gavin. You alluded to it as your reason for joining the Catholic Church - the Church's divine teaching authority and the protection of the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus to the Church.
"Pope Francis, always enigmatic, is keeping us all guessing about where the Vatican and papacy is going to put its weight. Probably more important is what happens when the 266th successor of St Peter gives way to the 267th.
"Whatever the dominoes do, I think it best to continue to keep faith with what God has given me to do. And try to follow the example of St Paul and St Athanasius, to keep, protect and share the faith, in the public square, until I am silenced by the state, rather than by the Church."
That's fair enough - follow where the Spirit leads - but please don't join the chorus of dissent coming from the likes of 'Mundabor', 'Church Militant' and 'Life Site'.
Are the accusations of papal critics rooted in a fear that Christ’s promises for the Church are untrue? Do you trust in the divine assistance promised to the Church in the ministry of the pope and bishops? The Church teaches that the Magisterium is a backstop against doctrinal error and heresy. Have faith in the Holy Spirit’s protection of the deposit of faith and confidence that erroneous ideas from the modernist-progressives will be rejected.
Addendum
"A person once asked me, in a provocative manner, if I approved of homosexuality. I replied with another question: ‘Tell me: when God looks at a gay person, does he endorse the existence of this person with love, or reject and condemn this person?’ We must always consider the person. Here we enter into the mystery of the human being. In life, God accompanies persons, and we must accompany them, starting from their situation. It is necessary to accompany them with mercy. When that happens, the Holy Spirit inspires the priest to say the right thing.
“This is also the great benefit of confession as a sacrament: evaluating case by case and discerning what is the best thing to do for a person who seeks God and grace. The confessional is not a torture chamber, but the place in which the Lord’s mercy motivates us to do better. I also consider the situation of a woman with a failed marriage in her past and who also had an abortion. Then this woman remarries, and she is now happy and has five children. That abortion in her past weighs heavily on her conscience and she sincerely regrets it. She would like to move forward in her Christian life. What is the confessor to do?
We cannot insist only on issues related to abortion, gay marriage and the use of contraceptive methods. This is not possible. I have not spoken much about these things, and I was reprimanded for that. But when we speak about these issues, we have to talk about them in a context. The teaching of the church, for that matter, is clear and I am a son of the church, but it is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time.
“The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church’s pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently. Proclamation in a missionary style focuses on the essentials, on the necessary things: this is also what fascinates and attracts more, what makes the heart burn, as it did for the disciples at Emmaus. We have to find a new balance; otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel. The proposal of the Gospel must be more simple, profound, radiant. It is from this proposition that the moral consequences then flow.
“I say this also thinking about the preaching and content of our preaching. A beautiful homily, a genuine sermon must begin with the first proclamation, with the proclamation of salvation. There is nothing more solid, deep and sure than this proclamation. Then you have to do catechesis. Then you can draw even a moral consequence. But the proclamation of the saving love of God comes before moral and religious imperatives. Today sometimes it seems that the opposite order is prevailing. The homily is the touchstone to measure the pastor’s proximity and ability to meet his people, because those who preach must recognize the heart of their community and must be able to see where the desire for God is lively and ardent. The message of the Gospel, therefore, is not to be reduced to some aspects that, although relevant, on their own do not show the heart of the message of Jesus Christ."
Ashenden quotes the Pope as saying: “It would never be prudent to permit our seminarians to assume such a high-profile media role when they are discerning a move towards ordination."
ReplyDeleteHe doesn't say how long he would have remained a seminarian. Do you happen to know how long a former Anglican clergyman normally has to wait before he is ordained? And would it really have meant never uttering a word in public during all that time? Never a single podcast, never a single interview?
I don't know for certain any answers to your questions, however I would agree with HJ that silence during that period wouldn't be unreasonable.
DeleteIt seems to me that he has taken a liking to the attention he has been receiving.
@Ray
DeleteI don't believe there's a set period. The decision to ordain lies in the hands of the bishop (having sought dispensation from the Holy See for the requirement for celibacy if the person is married). Those clerics who went to the Ordinariate were ordained within months, I think. But I've known ex-Anglicans who've become diocesan priests who've had to do a year or two at seminary first, and some retired ones who were ordained without darkening the seminary doorstep at all. And I know of one ex-Baptist who had to do the whole seminary programme because the bishop didn't like his Baptist formation (after several decades as a Baptist minister). It all depends on the person, their previous experience, knowledge and qualifications and the ordaining diocese and bishop.
Ah, so he shoud be quiet during the process leading up to ordination, I didn't quite catch that.
DeleteYes, there's no way anyone could silence him once he'd got his ordination safely in his pocket.
Delete@ Ray
DeleteGavin doesn't attribute the quote. It's more likely his to be his local bishop rather than the pope. Is it that unreasonable to expect him to focus on discerning whether he has a vocation to the Catholic priesthood and to lay aside his media activities?
@ Ray
DeleteThere is. He would be subject to the authority of his bishop in this matter.
Wasn't it something Cardinal Bergoglio said or wrote in 2013? (Either before or after 13 March in that year.) That's what I thought you meant in your post.
Delete@Happy Jack
Delete*There is. He would be subject to the authority of his bishop in this matter.*
Bishops only go to the trouble of exercising that authority in extreme cases, such as Fr. James Altman of La Crosse, Wisconsin, and his endless online and offline propaganda lies that eventually got him kicked out of his parish last year. You can't compare Gavin Ashenden's views with that kind of toxic behaviour.
If you click through to the original article, it's clearer that the 'I' in that passage is Gavin speaking.
DeleteThere is a paragraph about an Irish priest preaching against abortion, homosexuality and transgenderism, which concludes:
"And his bishop cancelled him.
In fact there is now an organization called 'The Coalition for Cancelled priests'.
But I also make waves. I think they are waves that serve Jesus and the Gospel well, but they are waves. So I was alarmed when I was told that to move forward to be re-trained would require being silenced. "It would never be prudent to permit our seminarians to assume such a high-profile media role when they are discerning a move towards ordination.""
By the context, I'd assume that quotation came from Gavin's bishop.
@ Ray
DeleteOf course not! Gavin is loyal to Christ and the established moral teachings of the Church. What's going on in America (and Germany and Belgium) can't be compared to his public profile.
Gavin Ashenden is interesting as always. But I don't quite see why he cannot be ordained and also be a voice ('prophetic' or otherwise) in the 'public square'. Bishop Robert Barron seems to do OK
ReplyDelete'But the balance of things changed when Pope Francis appeared ... Who knew that Bergoglio’s election would precipitate a crisis in the Catholic Church...'
ReplyDeleteFrancis was elected pope in 2013, long before Gavin became Catholic in 2019 (not 2017 as stated above, that was when he became a CEC bishop). This 'crisis' was well underway by then. The infamous 'Pachamama' upset occurred in late 2019. It seems a little odd to only be coming to this conclusion now; surely Gavin would have known all this prior to offering himself for ordination?
@ Lain
DeleteYes, it was in December 2019 that he was received into the Catholic Church by the Bishop of Shrewsbury, It was in 2017 that he left the Church of England.
@Lain
Delete*surely Gavin would have known all this prior to offering himself for ordination?*
Good point! What can it be, then, that happened more recently than that to make him change his mind? I don't know where or under whom he has been studying for the priesthood. Did someone in charge there spell out for him the full implications of the pope's remark about a seminarian's duty to avoid "a high-profile media role"? It rather looks as though there's something he's keeping back.
@Ray
DeleteI presume that he would be studying under the auspices of Shrewsbury diocese, since that's where he was received into the Church. I don't know what seminary they use, but I presume he wasn't sent to Rome.
I personally don't have an issue with seminarians being required to remain silent; it is, after all, a period of discernment during which one should be focused on God. It's also a transitory period; a seminarian is still a layman, but is commonly viewed as a layman+. He has not yet received the authority to speak on behalf of the Church that comes with ordination, but his position can give him the appearance of doing so, which can cause confusion, particularity on contentious issues.
It's my guess, reading the linked article, that Gavin feels that this prohibition would continue to apply even after ordination. Perhaps his diocese doesn't like people who 'make waves'?
@ Lain
DeleteOne presumes that had he been ordained, he would have been assigned a parish to pastor local Catholics and to offer them the sacraments.
@HJ
DeleteYes, and I'm personally not a fan of 'celebrity clerics'. I don't know how one can attend to the pastoral and practical needs of one's parish if one is always on the TV and Twitter.
@ Lain
DeleteBishop Davies seems 'traditional' in his views about the issues mentioned by Gavin Ashenden:
From Wiki:
<<Bishop Davies opposed the legalisation of same-sex marriage in the UK, calling it a "seismic shift". In 2016, he supported the establishment of a Shrewsbury chapter of Courage International, an organisation that promotes celibacy for gay Catholics.
Ahead of the 2019 general election, Davies opposed political parties making manifesto statements of support for abortion, which were previously the decision of individual candidates. He told Catholics to think carefully about their vote for this reason.<<
These articles from CNA underline his orthodoxy on the 'trigger issues':
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/tags/4412/bishop-mark-davies
Perhaps. But Gavin is also an outspoken critic of the failings of the institution. One wonders how well the bishop takes that.
Delete@ Lain
DeleteNot too well one imagines ....
Gavin has a small but growing following on Youtube - "Catholic Unscripted' - and engages with the viewers responses there.
Completely agree.
ReplyDeleteI think, and I maybe being unfair, that he has enjoyed the limelight to much and it's all gone to his head a bit.
Being lazy, I didn't check but I did think that 2017 was too long ago.
@ Prof G
DeleteI think you may be being a bit hard. The Church needs an active laity who defend Church teaching. It's entirely possible God has called him to a role other than the priesthood.
However, why launch an attack on Pope Francis to justify this?
@HJ, it doesn't. I do wonder if he would be going to ordination if there was a different Pope.
Delete@ Prof G
DeleteOne wonders that too ....
he "key" to Gavin Ashenden's doubts seem to lie here:
ReplyDelete<<"There are good reasons for thinking ... That protected by the Magisterium (the collective assessment of the work of the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus to protect and lead the Church over the years), the Catholic Church has the resources to see off this explosive cultural and philosophical revolution."<<
For Catholics it's more than "good reasons for thinking". It's a dogma accepted by faith.
This seems to be what tipped the scales for Gavin Ashenden:
ReplyDelete<<One of the more surprising developments recently has been the number of Catholic priests who have been cancelled by their bishops. In Ireland just recently Fr Sean Seehy preached directly to his congregation:
"What is so sad today is you rarely hear about sin, but it's rampant. And we see it, for example, in the legislation of our government. We see it in the promotion of abortion. We see it in this lunatic approach of transgenderism. We see it, for example, in the promotion of sex between two men or two women. That is sinful. That is mortal sin. And people don't seem to realise it. But it's a fact. And we need to listen to God about it, because if we don't, then there's no hope for those people."
And his bishop cancelled him.
In fact there is now an organization called 'The Coalition for Cancelled priests'.<<
What does being 'cancelled' signify in this context?
DeleteI suppose that strictly speaking, cancelling doesn't deny dogma, it simply seeks to hide it.
Delete@ Gadjo and Prof G
DeleteIt's about the pastoral approach adopted - not dogmna.
But a 'cancelled' priest can still carry on as a priest?
Delete@ Gadjo
DeleteNot necessarily.
@Happy Jack, do you mind if I go off topic for a moment? This news from Germany is not without its entertainment value. It's a bit like John le Carré's A Small Town in Germany suddenly materialising in real life, but with added pantomime.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.reuters.com/world/europe/25-suspected-members-german-far-right-group-arrested-raids-prosecutors-office-2022-12-07/
Not at all, Ray. It's everyone's blog, not just Jack's.
Delete<<Prosecutors said the group was inspired by the deep state conspiracy theories of Germany's Reichsbuerger and QAnon.. <<
Jack has now watched a few episodes of Catholic Unscripted and concluded Gavin Ashenden's decision may be well founded. He has a deep understanding of the Christian faith and presents this very well.
ReplyDeleteOne of the advantages Ashenden has is that he spent a long time in the Church of England which, someone once said, is about ten years ahead of the Catholic Church. He's seen all the same signs before and knows where it all leads. The hierarchy are foolish if they don't take notice of an outsider's perspective; they see things that people born Catholic, educated in Catholic schools and universities and sent straight to seminary, don't.
DeleteYes, agreed. This is well worth a watch. It's an excellent overview of the situation and has a deeply spiritual focus from Gavin.
DeleteVery interesting (not least because he made my exact point at about 4 mins in, and he has the same icon of the Last Supper as I do 👍). I think Gavin is a good example of the kind of deep, spiritual thinking the Church of England has driven out with its relentless focus on vapid issues that are, literally, skin deep.
DeleteI wonder how long schism can be avoided while some elements in the Church continue to push viewpoints not in accordance with received Catholic teaching, and the leadership at best permits and at worst encourages this 'ambiguity'.
What I found remarkable was the way he summed up in a few spoken paragraphs the meaning of the OT in relation to the Gospel of Christ and the relationship between human sexuality and spiritual holiness.
DeleteJ have to say too that I don't see a huge division between his thinking and (my reading) of Pope Francis' attempts to shift the focus away from Christianity as a set of "rules" towards a relationship with Our Lord.
He is a remarkably insightful pastoral theologian (one usually gets good pastors or good theologians, rarely both together). I hope he establishes himself as a strong, positive voice for the Church. She needs better lay theologians.
DeleteRules v relationships is a difficult one. Some personality types can only handle rules, and some Catholics recoil from the 'relationship with Jesus' rhetoric because it sounds so evangelical, so there's going to automatically be resistance from those groups.
The issue here, I think, is that living in relationship with God requires spiritual depth and maturity, otherwise it simply becomes an exercise in following our own vanities (the progressive error is to pass off self-indulgence as having grown beyond the rules). The spiritually immature, like children, need rules. This is the whole model of scripture, it seems to me, where we move from the very highly regulated religious life of Israel to freedom in Christ. This comes at the cost of having to be spiritually developed enough to learn discernment, for all things may be lawful, but not all things are beneficial. Most people are not there, yet. In my station, I'm given ridiculous freedom by my Abba to develop my relationship with God, but I'm still under obedience to him and the Church with all her regulations about fasting and so on. The key is understanding that the 'rules' exist for my benefit - it doesn't really matter, intrinsically, if I eat meat or a massive bar of chocolate in advent. The door of heaven won't be barred by a Twix when I get there (or it won't be for long!). What matters is that I learn self-discipline and self-denial in the smaller things, so that I can practice them in the greater. Rules are totally irrelevant, but also really important.
I think Pope Francis is perhaps trying to get people to run before they can walk. You might want a child to ride a bike without stabilisers, but you don't just wrench the stabilisers off while they're halfway down the path on their first ride. As they grow up, you also correct them when they start to use their new freedoms to push against boundaries in the wrong way. The Vatican seems to struggle to do this, which is creating confusion for the faithful, who are maybe more accustomed (rightly or wrongly) to 'Roma locuta; causa finita est'.
It's ironic as Pope Francis recently said in an address to the International Theological Commission:
Delete“Theologians must go beyond, seek to go beyond. But this I want to distinguish from the catechist: the catechist must give the right doctrine, the solid doctrine; not the possible novelties, of which some are good, but what is solid; the catechist conveys the solid doctrine. The theologian dares to go further, and it will be the magisterium that will stop him. But the vocation of the theologian is always to venture to go further, because he is trying, and he is trying to make theology more explicit. But never give catechesis to children and people with new doctrines that are not sure. This distinction is not mine, it is St. Ignatius of Loyola’s, who I think understood something better than I do!”
And Rome has spoken on the German heresies. They just refuse to listen.
Btw, your spiritual father will learn 😈
The Church has mechanisms to deal with prelates who won't listen, it might be time to use some of them. How some high profile priests have been allowed to get away with teaching things that contradict non-negotiable Catholic doctrine is beyond me.
DeleteIn St. Evagrius' words, 'A theologian is one who prays, and one who prays is a theologian.' There are too many theologians who don't pray, and who conduct theology as a one might conduct an autopsy; as a purely inquisitive investigation that brings life to nobody.
I like to think that my spiritual father learns something every time we speak 😇
Patience ....
DeleteThe Magisterium is, indeed, the backstop of the Church, but I'm not seeing a lack of belief in it from Ashenden. Rather, it's coming from the progressives. Ashenden nails it when he says it's the traditionalists who are keeping the Church walking the line. The attitude of the progressives is one of uncomfortable embarrassment every time the "M" word is mentioned. They know they can't just repeal it, however much they might want to, so they do the next best thing, they simply ignore it.
ReplyDeleteYes, but unlike some, Gavin shows a deep spiritual humility; his observations are not aggressive or abrasive.
DeleteHumility is a complex thing. I might argue that Pius XII being carried on a litter to his coronation was showing more humility that Francis going around Rome in a Fiat 500. Catholicism is a balanced and nuanced thing. A virtue which is appropriate in one setting may be wrong in another. We have confession if you get it wrong, but the essence of reconciliation is repentance. If you keep doubling down on the same mistake, where's the humility in that?
Delete