Carla Foster - Justice and Compassion?
HJ has posted on this at the time of trial and sentencing: Woman Jailed for Killing Her Baby - Special Pleading, Outrage and Deflection
Carla Foster was jailed in June for taking pills which claimed the life of stillborn Lily at 32 weeks. Yesterday, the 44-year-old woman won her appeal against her prison term.
Dame Victoria Sharp, sitting with Lord Justice Holroyde and Mrs Justice Lambert, said Foster's sentence would be reduced to 14 months and that it should be suspended. She said: "This is a very sad case, not least because of the length of the gestation when the offence was committed ... It is a case that calls for compassion, not punishment, and where no useful purpose is served by detaining Ms Foster in custody." Dame Victoria added there was "exceptionally strong mitigation" in Foster's case and that she should be released from prison "immediately".
News of the change in Foster's sentence has, on one side, triggered fresh calls to decriminalise abortion and, on the other side, calls for justice for the dead child and the law to guide morality for the good of all.
Below are two articles illustrating these different perspectives.
Discuss.
The first from the Spectator: Why was Carla Foster ever sent to prison?
The Court of Appeal’s judgement is to be welcomed. It demonstrates compassion for a woman who found herself in a highly unusual and distressing situation and it allows her to be reunited with her three children. Announcing the Court’s decision, the appeal judge, Dame Victoria Sharp, declared that there was ‘exceptionally strong mitigation’ in Foster’s case and that there was ‘no useful purpose’ served by detaining Foster in custody.
Dame Sharp is correct: Foster’s sentence served as neither punishment nor deterrent. Nothing can turn back the clock and prevent Foster from becoming pregnant or resuscitate her dead baby. At her trial, she was said to have demonstrated considerable remorse for her actions. This remorse will no doubt endure, with or without incarceration.
The Court of Appeal heard that Foster has not been allowed to communicate with her children from inside prison. We can be sure they will have missed their mother and experienced great disruption during her absence. It strikes me that campaigners who have expressed pity for Foster’s aborted child would do well to demonstrate similar empathy for her existing children. Having done nothing wrong, they did not deserve to be without their mother for such a long period; incarcerating Foster punished them.
The argument that Foster’s sentence serves as a deterrent to others suggests that the only thing stopping women with unwanted pregnancies from self-administering late term abortions is the fear of a prison sentence. In reality, nothing could be further from the truth. Only one per cent of abortions are carried out on women who are over 20 weeks pregnant and, for the most part, these are tragic cases of severe foetal disability or where the mother’s life might be at risk if the pregnancy were to continue. Late abortions are probably more likely to be driven by desperation than lifestyle choices taken on a whim.
Foster’s individual circumstances expose the futility of prison as a deterrent for women determined to end a pregnancy. Lockdown led her to return to her husband while pregnant with her ex-partner’s baby. Lockdown may have also curtailed childcare, medical appointments and opportunities for private conversations with friends and trusted family members. This is not to condone but to understand Foster’s actions. She found herself panicked, stressed and anxious in a situation neither she nor any other woman is ever likely to find herself again.
Any woman contemplating illegally procuring pills and self-administering a late term abortion is in a position of extreme desperation, fear and anxiety. The threat of a jail sentence will not deter a woman terrified of the consequences of giving birth from seeking to terminate her pregnancy but it will make an already incredibly stressful situation far worse.
With no reasonable basis for imprisoning Foster it is good that compassion has prevailed and she will be released. But, thanks to laws criminalising abortion, Foster still finds herself with a criminal record and a 14-month suspended sentence. We urgently need to reconsider Britain’s abortion laws: not to celebrate late term abortions as a lifestyle choice, but to recognise that the criminal courts are no place to be passing judgement on the private lives and medical decisions of often desperate women. In 2019, abortion was decriminalised in northern Ireland. It is time the rest of the UK followed suit.
His mother, deciding that he must die that day, crushed his head — most likely with her foot. He was battered. But still he lived. So following the first assault, she shoved cotton wool balls deep into his throat. After clearing his limp body and the placenta into a black bin bag, she went to sleep. This week, for this unthinkable crime, she was found guilty and sent to prison.
The heartbreaking and disturbing case of Paris Mayo and her baby, Stanley, has shaken all who hear of it. Rarely does one hear of such a tragic murder going hand-in-hand with sympathetic coverage of the perpetrator, however. Paris, aged 15, had been in clear denial as to her pregnancy. Shocked and traumatised, she gave birth alone in her bathroom, terrified that her parents would hear and discover the pregnancy. And so, she killed her baby. Such are the circumstances of her trauma, that many commentators question if a twelve-year jail sentence is really fair for a young girl committing such terrible deeds in a state of clear panic.
The sentence has been handed down only weeks after another woman was jailed for a similar crime. Carla Foster deliberately suffocated her eight-month-old child in utero with mifepristone abortion pills, which are intended for self-directed use during only the first 10 weeks of pregnancy. She had lied about the length of her pregnancy on the phone with abortion provider BPAS. Making no attempt to check the accuracy of her claim via ultrasound, nor examining whether she might have been suffering any medical complications, BPAS sent her pills in the post — an act of sheer medical recklessness.
At eight months pregnant, the only “choice” abortion pills offered Carla was whether to give birth to a live baby or a dead one. She chose the latter. After delivering her daughter — whom she later named “Lily” — Carla was distraught with regret and haunted by the face of her viable, sentient baby, capable of feeling the pain of her death, who would easily have survived and thrived in the world had she been delivered alive at that stage.
For killing baby Lily, Carla received a prison sentence of four years.
Carla committed acts of extreme brutality against helpless, innocent infants. Yet few would look upon them without at least a shred of human compassion. Both mothers must clearly have been in states of severe mental distress to upend the laws of nature so brutally.
Should we withhold justice in such cases, out of compassion?
Condoning the taking of innocent human life without consequence is never the solution Such would be the argument of the abortion lobby. Despite being largely responsible for enabling Carla’s time in prison through inexcusable negligence, BPAS has politically manipulated her story to campaign for decriminalising abortion up to birth.
In the UK, it is currently unlawful to intentionally end the life of a child older than six months (24 weeks) in utero, unless they have any form of disability. Increasing that boundary up till full term — till nine months in utero — would mean that more women like Carla could abort healthy late-term babies for any reason without facing any legal consequences. Instead of having a legal line of protection at 24 weeks (already double the average European abortion limit), the line of distinction between lawful and unlawful killing would depend then on geography — whether a baby is outside the womb or not. No consequences for Carla, then. Where would that leave Paris?
If abortion were decriminalised up until birth, Paris would still face jail for killing her child outside of the womb. This brings to light clear logical inconsistencies — how do we reconcile permissible late term abortion with legal consequences for the murder of a just-born child? How do we account compassionately for mothers in traumatic situations like hers?
The next step, surely, would be to widen the circle again. Decriminalise the ending of a child’s life until when — the first day after birth? The first week? The first month, or year? Where do we draw the line between justice for the child (who, as a member of our human family, has the same rights to life and health as all of us) and excusing the mother? The answer isn’t easy, but condoning the taking of innocent human life without consequence is never the solution.
The slippery slopists might well be right once again. Laws ultimately guide morality. Without law, we have unchecked brutality. With unchecked brutality, the weakest of society lose out, facing injustice and violence and death. Justice and compassion aren’t opposed. They co-exist.
We must do all we can to support women who have faced pregnancy- and abortion-related trauma with the counselling and care that they need to find healing. Averting and eroding justice after wrongdoing is not the answer, however. Removing prohibitions on late-term abortion or infanticide would only lead to the death of more innocent children like Lily — and more distress and trauma for mums like Carla, who describes being tormented in the aftermath of delivering her stillborn baby. The law is not there only to punish. It’s there to protect. In respect to the horrors faced by Carla, Lily, Paris and Stanley, we must keep it that way.
[The details of Paris and Stanley Mayo can be read here. They make very distressing reading.]
Carla Foster has now been released from prison, according to the Spectator:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-was-carla-foster-ever-sent-to-prison/
Ooops ... apologies, Clive! HJ mistakenly deleted your comment: "Two strong arguments, I'll take time to digest."
ReplyDeleteHJ's response to this: Very wise. It'ss a difficult one.
The first article focus solely on punishment as deterrence. For HJ, responses must also respond to the question posed in the second article
- Should we withhold justice in such cases, out of compassion?
And the series of underlying propositions:
- The law is not there only to punish. It’s there to protect;
- Laws ultimately guide morality.
- Justice and compassion aren’t opposed.
- In respect to the horrors faced by Carla, Lily, Paris and Stanley, we must keep it that way.
All that said, one's heart goes out firstly, to the dead children who suffered such cruel deaths, and also to their mother's who now have to live with the consequences of these decisions and acts.
I won't be silenced, is this Coutts bank, am I being persecuted and deleted because of my brave outspokenness?
DeleteShame, shame, shame!!
@ Clive. This is a very exclusive blog, don't you know. Jack has started deleting comments from people with insufficient funds in their current account.
DeleteBehave - the pair of you!
Delete@Lain,
DeleteI have sufficient funds, this is libel, an outrage, I am being cancelled for my belief in Santa!
You need an offshore blog account, maybe in Lapland where they're more tolerant of Santa sympathisers!
DeleteApropos nothing related to this post. At my son's old primary end of year service in the local CofE ( the school is a cofe va) and there isn't a single hymn, prayer or anything faintly Christian, however tenuous about the service. Not a thing.
DeleteI'm no Martin, but really what the hell is wrong with the vicar.
I think a Martin assembly would have no hymns, no prayers and a two hour long sermon.
DeleteIn my experience, most CofE schools stopped being anything but tangentially related to the CofE a long time ago. And as the CofE is only tangentially related to Christianity now...
The Assembly of Martinian has a membership of one.
Delete@Lain, I had an argument with Martin about sermon lengths, I enjoyed it but nothing was gained.
Delete@HJ You'd be surprised.
Around five to ten minutes seems about right to me.
DeleteI had an argument with Martin (surprising, I know) about the acoustics in medieval parish churches. He thought that they weren't good enough for preaching, which is apparently the sole purpose of Christian assembly (although this really a justification for his belief that 'churches shouldn't have buildings'). I can't say I've ever had a problem hearing the preacher in a traditional parish church - there are times when I've wished I couldn't hear them, but that's another story.
"On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight."
DeleteMartin was insistent that this was solely a sermon and refused to accept that it might have been advice on church governance etc to give future guidance as he was leaving.
But Martin was a literalist to the core, except where the bible disagreed with him.
"... And in a window sat a certain young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep. He was overcome by sleep; and as Paul continued speaking, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead."
DeleteI presume he'd insist that each sermon should have at least one fatality too!
The first argument is bizarre:
ReplyDeleteFoster’s sentence served as neither punishment nor deterrent.
In what sense does a prison sentence not serve as a punishment? The author never addresses this.
Nothing can turn back the clock and prevent Foster from becoming pregnant or resuscitate her dead baby.
This is true of any crime. Putting Harold Shipman in prison didn't bring his patients back to life, either.
Foster’s individual circumstances expose the futility of prison as a deterrent for women determined to end a pregnancy.
By the same logic, Shipman's circumstances expose the futility of prison as a deterrent for mass murderers. Prison is not simply a deterrent.
But, thanks to laws criminalising abortion, Foster still finds herself with a criminal record and a 14-month suspended sentence.
Because she committed a crime. The courts have the ability to be lenient in considering individual circumstances, which they have been in releasing her. Justice doesn't mean automatically applying the most severe punishment.
We urgently need to reconsider Britain’s abortion laws: not to celebrate late term abortions as a lifestyle choice, but to recognise that the criminal courts are no place to be passing judgement on the private lives and medical decisions of often desperate women.
This is disingenuous, decriminalising late term abortion will make it a lifestyle choice: we've already seen that with early term abortion. An abortion involves two lives, it's not a 'private medical matter'.
I think cases such as these are seen differently because the victim is 'just' an unborn. If a mother, in similar circumstances, murdered their toddler, I suspect that there might be calls to leniency because of those circumstance, but I doubt that there would be many articles advocating decriminalising child murder.
Incidentally, here is an article about a moron who killed a pregnant woman while he was driving at 120mph, holding a phone in one hand to upload video of himself to social media. In this case, the media is treating the death of the 17 week unborn child as a separate tragedy, because foetuses are only human lives in this country when they're wanted.
At a mass shooting incident in Hamburg in March this year, one of the casualties was a pregnant woman who lost her baby though she herself survived. That posed a challenge to the media reporting on the incident. How many people were killed? The AP said six people were killed while Reuters initially said seven, including the unborn baby as a person. (In the AP story, the pregnant mother was listed as one of the wounded.) The title on the Reuters story originally read, “German gunman kills 7 including unborn child at Jehovah’s Witness hall”, but it was later changed to “German gunman kills six, unborn child, at …”.
Delete[Add to above]
DeleteThe BBC, interestingly, gave the number as seven, without making any excuses or humming and hahing:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64910415
Yes, language is a slippery thing. As someone pointed out, nobody said that the Duchess of Cambridge was carrying the royal foetus.
DeleteThe first article is predicated on emotion, not reason, It also has a political spin. One can be both compassionate and just. There can be empathy and understanding, but this should not exclude an appreciation of the gravity of an offence.
DeleteHJ found the murder of Stanley Mayo truly horrific.
It is, and the age of the mother makes it doubly sad. May God grant him, and all those who were never given the chance to be born, God's eternal joys and the delight of his blessed and everlasting life.
DeleteIt does also highlight the absurdity of legalising late term abortion - Stanley's death was no more tragic simply because he was outside the womb.
@Lain, prison in fact isn't a deterrent. The likelihood of being caught and therefore punished is.
DeleteYes, HJ had to read this twice in case he misread it: "She was 17 weeks pregnant with her first daughter, Neeve .. "
ReplyDeleteI presume that Jack favours Naimh; another of the Emerald Isle's unique spellings.
DeleteNaimh is so much more elegant.
DeleteAs Jeaic would.
DeleteSean ...
DeleteLeix and Laois seem to be alternative spellings of the same county name, pronounced "Leash". I have ancestors who came from there, when it was still called Queen's County.
DeleteSeán is anglicised as John, and Jack is a nickname for John. 🫠
DeleteAnd the English wonder why foreigners struggle with the language.
Actually, Eóghan is angicised as John. Sean is back translation of John, and Shane is an anglicisation of Sean. I hope that clears it up. (Eóghan, by the way, is obviously pronounced "Owen."}
DeleteOh, obviously. The lack of consistency in how letters are pronounced across the UK is just rude.
DeleteI did go to school with a Mebh, which was my first introduction to Celtic tricksiness. Looking that up, it can also be spelled Meadhbh. Good grief.
少なくとも私たちは文字を使用し、波線や写真は使用しません
DeleteThe cheek. We had a fully developed writing system while you were still scratching lines - sorry, 'runes' - in rocks!
Delete@Lain, you’ve reminded me of something I’ve mentioned before, if not here then back at Cranmer’s. The world — or at least the western world — owes a debt of gratitude to Ireland for a brilliant and far-reaching invention that changed the course of civilisation. I’m not kidding. I mean this seriously. Nobody knows the name of the inventor: he was just an anonymous scribe employed in copying the Gospels in a monastery somewhere in Ireland. The date is believed to have been somewhere between 650 and 700. His startling innovation: the space between words. Upuntilthatmomentnobodyhadseenanythingwronginwritinglikethis.
Delete@ Ray, oh yes, I remember this. Are you implying that the Irish just needed a little help with reading? What would Jack say!? 😁 What's more astonishing is that it took until the 11th century to become the norm across Europe, according to the wiki article.
DeleteIn East Asia, word spacing doesn't really occur - except in modern Korean/Hangul, which was invented in the 15th century specifically to increase literacy and be easy to read, without having to learn all the complex Chinese characters. Japanese texts for children or learners will often separate words out, but otherwise it's just continuous text with some punctuation marks. Japanese does combine three distinct writing systems, which helps break the text up if you're familiar with them.
So the final score is one each for the Tories, the Starmtroopers and the Dims. What is the outlook now for the next GE?
ReplyDeleteIt occurs to me that if the Tories could put up a slate of candidates who could defend and articulate old-style Burkean conservatism (and note the lower-case "c"), and do it without apology, they'd probably sweep the boards. Not going to happen, obviously.
DeleteAt the next GE, we'll swap over to the globalists with the red rosettes for a decade. Then we'll switch back to the globalists with the blue rosettes. Everyone will go on pretending that things would be better if 'their party' were in power and yelling at each other about who can use what toilets while their government erodes their rights and fleeces them for taxes. Rinse and repeat until there's some kind of electoral reform.
DeleteSo young to be so cynical.
DeleteIt's the bad influence of all the old Diogeneses I'm spending time around!
Delete😲 😲
DeleteAccording to 'The World History Encyclopaedia':
Diogenes ... was known for brutal honesty in conversation, paid no attention to any kind of etiquette regarding social class, and seems to have had no problem urinating or even masturbating in public and, when criticized, pointed out that such activities were normal and that everyone engaged in them but hid in private what he did openly."
😲 😲
There may be some truth in this:
"According to Diogenes, society was an artificial contrivance set up by human beings which did not accord well with truth or virtue and could not in any way make someone a good and decent human being; and so follows the famous story of Diogenes holding the light up to the faces of passers-by in the market place looking for an honest man or a true human being. Everyone, he claimed, was trapped in this make-believe world which they insisted was reality and, because of this, people were living in a kind of dream state."
So they need to be...ahem..."woke" up. I'm beginning to see that the problem goes back a lot further than I'd realised...
DeleteDiogenes Laertius records a famous (and probably apocryphal) story of Alexander the Great seeking out Diogenes the Cynic in the market place.
DeleteAlexander announced that 'I am Alexander the great king', to which Diogenes replied, 'I am Diogenes the dog.' When Alexander asked why he was called a dog, Diogenes answered, 'I fawn on those who give me anything, I yelp at those who refuse, and I set my teeth in rascals.'
When Alexander asked Diogenes if he could do anything for him, Diogenes, who was laying in the warmth of the sun, replied, 'Stand aside to stop blocking the sun.'
Alexander, as he left, is said to have remarked, 'If I were not Alexander, I would want to be Diogenes.'
he sounds somewhat like the 'Inspector General' of former acquaintance.
DeleteI'm still not convinced that the IG was entirely for real.
DeleteYes, the IG "played a role" and HJ never knew whether to take him at his word or not.
Delete