Monday's Open Forum
Share your thoughts on any issue ...
War Crimes and Genocide in Gaza?
Back in May 2024, the question was posed: Has Israel lost the war against Hamas? To recap: Israel’s original intention for counter attacking Hamas - its “jus ad bellum,” - i.e. the conditions under which states resort to war - was to recue the hostages and also to eliminate Hamas because of its ongoing threat to Israel. It was not revenge for the horrors of October 7 th , 2023, although that was the immediate cause. It was about the damage that Hamas could do in the future given it stated intent to annihilate Israel. Is Israel aiming for a realistic, achievable goals? Rescuing hostages is a clear and potentially achievable end. But is eliminating Hamas possible? How do you reduce civilian casualties in the face of Hamas tactics? Is her present strategy producing more chaos? Is her approach encouraging future terrorist attacks on her. Is there an alternative approach? As the war goes on and civilian deaths rise, questions increasingly surface about Israel’s conduct ...
Many issues many thoughts, but I'm thinking that a literary interlude might be a break from the news. I'm now half-way through
ReplyDeleteRobert Hugh Benson's distopian Catholic novel The Lord of the World, and, as I've already mentioned to Jack, am increasingly astounded by it (in a good way). Many here have surely already read it, but for those who haven't, I urge you to, even if you are not Roman Catholic. Does anybody know how it has been received over the years by theologians, or about Benson's oeuvre apart from this?
P.s. please nobody spoil it for me by giving too many details about what happens in the second half...
Robert Benson was the son of Edward White Benson, Archbishop of Canterbury between 1883 and 1896. He was ABC when Pope Leo XIII issued the papal bull that pronounced Anglican holy orders invalid, and had begun to draft a reply, but was taken sick during a Sunday service and died suddenly before it could be completed.
DeleteRobert studied at Eaton and Cambridge and was ordained as an Anglican priest by his father. He went to the Middle East after his father's death, where he began questioning the status of the Church of England and joined an Anglican religious order. Two years later, in 1903, he was received into the Catholic Church and ordained, which was a big deal at the time.
The Lord of the World is regarded as the first modern dystopian novel. Both Popes Benedict XVI and Francis have described it as 'prophetic', and it is popular among traditional Catholic Theologians. The then Cardinal Ratzinger compared George Bush's 'New World Order Speech' to the world described in the book. Pope Francis says he 'always recommends' the book to people, and said Benson has influenced his thinking. In response to questions about non-binary options appearing on government paperwork, Francis said that it reminded him of the novel's world, 'in which differences are disappearing and everything is the same, everything is uniform, a single leader of the whole world.'
The Wiki article for the book is very thorough, but spoiler heavy so I wouldn't recommend looking at it until you've finished the novel!
"The Dawn of All" by Benson is also a good read. - it imagines a very world where Christendom prevails. HJ recommends it.
DeleteThank you both for your input!
DeleteAlso, in the same genre as ‘Lord of the World’, is the highly recommended 1959 novel by Walter Miller, ‘ A Canticle for Leibowitz’. Very Benedictine in its sensibilities, it can be read as an American and mid-20th century continuation of Benson’s novel.
Delete@Anonymous,
DeleteHmm, that does sound like an interesting read, I shall order it! (You all see now that it wasn't such a shabby idea to have a literary interlude here).
Please pray for His Eminence Metropolitan Daniel of Tokyo and All Japan, who reposed in the Lord on Thursday.
ReplyDeleteThis century has provided us with a lot of new knowledge. But what for? How can it help to save a soul? When I was young, I enjoyed intellectual activities a lot. But now, having walked through most of my life path, I have come to the conclusion that knowledge is far from everything. It is significant in our life, but it is not the most important thing. The most important is the spiritual state of our souls and hearts, which leads to salvation. Divine love must reign in the heart of man. - Met. Daniel.
Thank you, @Gadjo. It's a book I've sometimes seen mentioned in comments threads on Catholic websites, but until this moment I had never been prompted to take a look at it. I've bookmarked it and started on the Prologue. It looks promising.
ReplyDeletehttps://archive.org/details/lordofworld00bens/page/n13/mode/2up
@Ray,
DeleteI've never been a sci-fi fan and don't even know much about the period when book was written (1907), but it may have a been a little golden age for distopian fiction as E. M. Forster's The Machine Stops (which I have read) was also written then and H. G. Wells was still active (though sadly I think he viewed godless societies more as being utopian, and I think that Benson wrote partly in reaction to him).
If one can accept the conceit that the world is reduced to a binary of Roman Catholicism vs. 'Humanitarianism" (aspects of which may be familiar to us all right now) then I think any Christian could enjoy it. (If anyone's interested, this reader fully expected the dismissal of Protestantism - and in fact felt strangely emeliorated that it seemed to be done more out of pity than anger, though of course he disagrees - but thought that the total ignoring, up to now any rate, of the churches of the East was crass, though also not entirely unexpected).
I really have no idea where the story is going next. Possibly it will stick close to the Book of Revelation, or, as every good story needs a plot twist, perhaps the Wesleyian Methodists will pop up at the last moment to save the day...
@Gadjo -- Same here. I can certainly enjoy science fiction as comedy, e.g. Futurama, but not so much when it takes itself seriously. My wife and I went to watch 2001 on first release, in about 1969. We were both inclined to walk out but I turned to her and whispered, at least twice, "This is Kubrick. He's a good director. Let's give it another ten minutes. It must start getting better soon." It never did. For both of us, it turned out to be the dullest film we ever sat through in a cinema.
DeleteOn the other hand we both enjoyed Logan's Run, with Peter Ustinov. Did you ever see that? Another good one was The Day The Earth Stood Still, the original version with Michael Rennie. We watched that on television two or three times.
@Ray
Delete2001 was an odd film wasn't it?? My lingering memory of it is Leonard Rossiter's cameo role as a Russian scientist while still sounding somewhat like Rigsby/Reginald Perrin. True sci-fi fans can undoubtedly fill us in on the cultural significance of the film! I haven't seen those other films you mention, sorry.
I hadn't even remembered that Leonard Rossiter was in it. I don't think I even knew who he was at that time. It wasn't until Rising Damp that I really noticed him.
DeleteI think Bladerunner was a brilliant, thought provoking film. One of my all time favourites.
Delete@ Prof - have you read the book it's based on?
DeleteBladerunner also has one of my all time favourite soundtracks. Vangelis' work is masterful. I'm a sucker for synths, I was born far too late!
Interestingly, given what we've been talking about with Gadjo's book, the soundtrack contains the faux 1930s style song 'One More Kiss, Dear'. It was written by Peter Skellern, whose first hit was You're a Lady in 1972. He went on to write sacred choral music for, among other things, Songs of Praise. A committed Anglican, he had wanted to be ordained since he was nine years old and was put forward for ordination in 2013. Sadly, he was diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumour and so was ordained both deacon and priest on the same day in October 2016 by the Bishop of Truro under a special faculty from Justin Welby. He passed away in early 2017.
@lain no I haven't. I was put off by a friend who said it was incredibly boring.
DeleteI agree about the sound track. Absolutely perfect for the film.
@Lain, í had to check my memory re Peter Skellern. I remember him only for his voice that sounded like it came from an old record.
DeleteI remember him and Toya Wilcox being jointly interviewed on the BBC, it was an interesting combination.
@ Prof - I don't remember it being boring, it's not that long but it's quite slow and does go a bit weird towards the end. I don't think it would have worked as a straight adaption; the film is better in my opinion.
DeleteYes, the first time I heard the soundtrack, I thought Skellern's piece was an old song they'd found that just happened to suit the movie. It was perfectly done.
""Former Soul Survivor staff members and alleged victims accused Pilavachi of running "a cult" where young men were persuaded to partake in full-body oil massages and wrestling matches, The Telegraph reported."
ReplyDeleteMy son went to soul survivor and enjoyed it. But it is with. An almost tedious inevitability that this story comes out. Whether it was the Sheffield experience, or the camps for posh boys or now soul survivor, a charismatic male leader would appear to have misbehaved. Should men be barred from these?
@Prof,
DeleteThat Soul Survivor church is just up the road from where I grew up, but I hadn't heard of it until now. Dunno what to say; the sexual urge is very strong, and yet so is the urge toward believing in morality, communality, structure and the rest. Maybe prayer is all the charismatic experience that one should need.
I have a prejudice about charismatic churches. Little good has come out of them.
Delete@ Prof - I agree. I was part of a church for a while that had some involvement with Soul Survivor and regularly packed its kids off to one of their camps. I always found it a little cultish. I'm not a fan of that kind of charismatic 'branded Christianity' in general - New Wine, Alpha, etc - it seems to me that the kind of identification with 'the brand' that these groups encourage is grounded in emotional manipulation and breeds insularity and personality cults, which is a playground for those with ill intent.
DeleteThe leaders tend also to be smug bastard's.
DeleteI was at a rally once being led by Gerald Coates. It was all 'how clever are we'.
He also tried to make us all in the audience turn to the person next to us and tell them we love them. This Presbyterian boy was having none of that nonsense!
@Prof,
DeleteHere in our Romanian town we've had more independent 'charismatic' churches than you can shake a stick at in the decades since communism fell (it's a university town, which surely helps). The only one I knew much about was run by an American who had overcome drug addiction and was doing a pretty good job at providing vibrant services. However, alarm bells went off in my head when I heard him preach that "We are not like the other churches here!" Recently he left the country sharpish after some young male members of his flock claimed to the press that it was run a bit like a cult, with the leader deciding who they should date or marry. I quite liked the chap, but sometines one's inner struggles continue for a very long time.
Romania sounds a bit like Brazil. We still occasionally see Brazil described as “the world’s largest Catholic country”, a claim based on census returns, where most people still state their religion as Catholic, however many years it’s been since they last saw the inside of a church.
DeleteCatholic priests themselves now admit, however, that if you take churchgoers alone, there are are now more Protestants than Catholics, with the charismatics doing particularly well. The largest Protestant church is the Assemblies of God, originally from California, followed by the home-grown Universal Church of the Kingdom of God.
@ Prof - that sounds horrendous. Although I hope it wasn't your wife sitting next to you at the time!
Delete@ Ray - that's unsurprising. Charismatic churches do a good job of cultivating a sense of belonging and conformity. There's usually some shibboleth - you must speak in tongues or be slain in the spirit, or whatever. People who don't experience these 'gifts' (whether these gifts bear any resemblance to their biblical counterparts in the first place is open to debate) will fake them because it's human nature to want to fit in. Once you're at that stage, you're invested in belonging to that community, and it weeds out the non-compliant. There's also the pressure to make a financial investment in the church - real Christians tithe. There's a lot of emotional manipulation in music and preaching; and charismatic movements tend to lean quite heavily into the prosperity gospel, which for obvious reasons appeals in less well off countries.
@Ray,
DeleteI'm not sure that any East European people could match Brazilians when it comes to 'charismatic'! But the 'new' and 'independent' angles were emphasized to youngsters here, in contrast to the headscarf wearing and stitting quietly on opposite sides of the church that their grandparents still enjoy.
Same situation here regarding church affiliation, with I think still around 90% identifying as Christian; but when we had a referendum to change the constitution to keep marriage traditional, we got a turn-out of only 21% (I'm guessing the regular church-goers), below the 30% needed.
@Lain, no that was many years later. At the time I was single and free.
DeleteHappy days.
Today is the Feast of the Assumption. For non-Catholics, the declaration by Pius XII in 1950 that Mary was assumed bodily into Heaven at the end of her earthly life remains the only clear-cut and unambiguous invocation of the Extraordinary Magisterium. It interests me that the Church would decree that God would not allow the corruption of death to touch the vessel which had brought Him into the world, His majesty being deserving of such reverence, yet routinely berates those who are, shall we say, somewhat "rigid" in their reverence.
ReplyDeleteBlessed Feast. And the end of the Dormition Fast for us!
DeleteIn birth, you preserved your virginity; in death, you did not abandon the world, O Theotokos. As mother of life, you departed to the source of life, delivering our souls from death by your intercessions.
I wish all Catholics and Orthodox well on this day! Here we have it as a national holiday, and to hear the cathedral bells ringing is a joy.
Delete@Bell,
Doesn't the Extraordinary Magisterium comprise two parts, the
Conciliar and the Pontifical? And why would the 19th-century infallible papal declaration of the Immaculate Conception not be another example of it for non-Catholics?
I'm referring here to papal infallibility which was not dogmatically defined until the First Vatican Council, some years after the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. It's a constant back and forth within Catholicism as to exactly which doctrine is defined under which magisterium, ordinary or extraordinary. The Immaculate Conception is often held to be defined under the extraordinary magisterium, but it would be a kind of retrospective attribution to papal infallibility, as are several other doctrines. I meant that the Assumption is the only one in which a reigning pope -- Pius XII -- clearly and unambiguously invoked the doctrine of infallibility and dogmatically defined the Assumption. There is no argument that it was DEFINITELY the EM.
DeleteWas there a particular reason for dogmatising this belief using the EM? The Assumption/Dormition is an established and ancient tradition, which has been a feast of the Church since at least the seventh century. Was there some controversy surrounding it in the 1950s?
DeleteI don't think so. As I understand it -- and I'm open to correction here -- Pius was entering his "Mystical" phase. WWII had just ended and the world was beginning anew. I think it was just exhilaration on his part.
DeleteGood article here:
DeleteThe German military invaded almost every European country; Italy was one of the last to be invaded. During the entire war, Pius XII spoke out against the inhumanity perpetrated by the German juggernaut. From the beginning of his pontificate in 1939 to the end of the war in 1945, Pius had defended the weak by speaking out against man’s inhumanity to man and by covertly arranging the protection of thousands of Jews in Italy.
With the memory of this human devastation still fresh in his mind, Pius XII encouraged a detailed study of Marian doctrine in the late 1940s in anticipation of proclaiming a new dogma for the benefit of humanity. The actual language used in the encyclical Munificentissimus Deus actually alludes to those events:
It is to be hoped that from meditation on the glorious example of Mary men may come to realize more and more the value of a human life entirely dedicated to fulfilling the will of the Heavenly Father and to caring for the welfare of others. We also hope that while materialistic theories [such as Communism] and the moral corruption arising from them are threatening to extinguish the light of virtue, and by stirring up strife, to destroy the lives of men, the exalted destiny of both our soul and body may in this striking manner be brought clearly to the notice of all men."
Pius XII clearly expresses his hope that meditation on Mary’s assumption will lead the faithful to a greater awareness of our common dignity as the human family. The Pope here reflects a truly Catholic perspective that has characterized those pontiffs who were and are great teachers, such as John Paul II and Benedict XVI. He, like his successors, thought that the real cause of such inhuman brutality could be found in the false ideas and sentiments that motivated the aggressors during the war.
Knowing that oppression is an ever-present danger, Pius was convinced that only inner transformation of the person could bring about the social results that lead to “caring for the welfare of others.” Without such a transformation, the systems of government and power would threaten “to extinguish the light of virtue” and eclipse “the exalted destiny of both our soul and body” so that men would forget their heavenly end.
What would impel human beings to keep their eyes fixed on their supernatural end and to desire the salvation of their fellow human beings? Mary’s assumption was a reminder of, and impetus toward, greater respect for humanity because the Assumption cannot be separated from the rest of Mary’s earthly life. Pius XII connected the Assumption explicitly to her Immaculate Conception:
The august Mother of God, mysteriously united from all eternity with Jesus Christ in the one and the same decree of predestination, immaculate in her conception, a virgin inviolate in her divine motherhood, the wholehearted companion of the divine Redeemer who won complete victory over sin and its consequences, gained at last the supreme crown of her privileges — to be preserved immune from the corruption of the tomb, and like her Son, when death has been conquered, to be carried up body and soul to the exalted glory of heaven, there to sit in splendor at the right hand of her Son, the immortal King of the ages.
By meditating on Mary’s participation in the redemptive work of her Son, the faithful would grow in their ability and desire to participate in God’s plan of salvation.
This sheds more light on it too.
DeleteOne wonders if the Pope XII also had in mind the Fatima message.
That is interesting. In the aftermath of so much death and carnage, I suppose that it was also an reaffirmation of the promise of resurrection and the incorruptibility of spiritual things among a world of decay. In Albania, the Assumption is called 'Little Pascha'.
Deletehttps://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2023/08/15/animal-liberation-now-peter-singer-christian-ethics-245856?utm_source=piano&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2928&pnespid=uOl8Dj5ZZb0X3vzEoW2_F5OFphG1D5hqPLWx3rZx8gNm4Qkgqxbe2RnD_WIiDdwnHbqjz91CEw
ReplyDeleteYou could trust the Jesuits to run a piece like this. They're always more concerned with getting "down" with the world than upholding the teachings of the Church. No, animals don't have rights. The reason we shouldn't mistreat them is because to do so degrades our humanity -- which is a reflection of God -- as the stewards of Christendom. In that sense, Aquinas was correct, you can't sin against animals. Indeed, if you've ever studied English law, you'll know the law of wills and trusts was developed to a large extent on legal challenges to wills which left large amounts of money to animal charities, particularly in the Victorian and Edwardian periods. Some greedy relative would contest Auntie Flora leaving her fortune to the Dogs and Cats Home, but generally, the judge would find against them, reasoning that charity and generosity towards animals engenders compassion in human society. The point was that it was NEVER about the animals themselves.
DeleteWe can't technically sin against animals because we can't sin against anything - all sin is ultimately against God. But creation is an icon of God, and it's sinful to plunder and abuse it for our own greed. The wilful misinterpretation of our 'dominion' over, rather than our 'stewardship' of, the earth has certainly been used to justify some atrocious behaviour towards the natural world, just as various passages of Scripture have been used to justify slavery and mankind's other manifold sins and wickedness towards man.
DeleteThe article deliberately takes St. Paul out of context and of course fails to mention any of the scriptural affirmations of the importance of creation - or the fact that Balaam is chastised and humiliated by God for abusing his donkey. It's a poor piece of scholarship.
The above is from Cressida. All I can say is I have actually heard Peter Singer declare that is OK to have sex with your dog as long as the dog does not mind...he said some people are very lonely and this is their only opportunity at experiencing some affection. This creep actually has a job at a university in the US. I don't know anything about the So called Catholic who supports him except that he/she/it has no idea of what a Catholic is. In Oz if you .... your animals you go to prison. It's illegal
ReplyDeleteSinger fell off the deep end years ago, I don't know why he still gets air time (shock value, I suppose). He felt that he acted unethically in spending money on his mother's medical care when she was dying with Alzheimer's, because his ethical theory stipulates that the money could have been spent elsewhere and done 'more good'. It's notable that his theories only apply to other people.
DeleteLike Dawkins, he's clueless when talking about theology - as his misappropriation of St. Paul shows in the article. A little worrying that the author of the piece is apparently a seminary professor.
England are through to the women's World Cup Final having beaten Australia 3 - 1.
ReplyDeleteThey meet Spain in the final on Sunday, 20 August, in Sydney. Kick-off is at 11am British Standard Time.
I haven't heard a thing about the women's football outside of the media pushing it and supermarkets using it as a marketing tool. No flags on cars, no adverts outside pubs, nobody talking about it - unlike when the men's World Cup is on and you can't escape it. But the MSM is still trying to convince everyone it's as popular as the men's game and they should all be paid the same...
DeleteOh, apart from when the monomaniacal BBC tried to out Moroccan lesbian footballers in a country where homosexuality is punishable by three years in prison.
I watched the match ....did not enjoy it. All the hype doomed the Matildas to failure.OK the lionesses were the better team. I am not a sporting fan but down here it is sort of mandatory to participate a little. To obtain a teaching certificate Down Under you are required to know the rules of sports played in the schools. If you are brilliant at Maths or Music and fail the soft ball or foot ball rules part of the examination you don't get a certificate. The excuse being that at some time a teacher may be required to supervise sport ....White sandy beaches, sunshine, cheap mangoes and avocados come at a price !......Cressida
ReplyDeleteAs for the Moroccan lesbian footballers....well the BBC did gain the sensationalism they intended...and evidently an apology makes everything OK.
ReplyDeleteLain you are the sort of person who should enter politics. You have the strength of character but your integrity and principles would disadvantage you and entail making a supreme sacrifice of suffering to do that job....so I wont wish it on you. ....Unless of course you don't mind preparing for sainthood:) !.....Cressida
Thank you, Cressida (I think!). I'm not sure I'd last very long in politics; my tolerance for utter nonsense seems to get less each day!
DeleteIt's about time you sent HJ another article to post here!
DeleteYeah, Cressida - you heard the man. Send Jack an article!
Delete@ Lain - yes, you!
DeleteHow about an article on "original sin" v "ancestral sin"?
Or, how about, House Keeping Tips from a Cave?
DeleteI will put something together.
DeleteHouse keeping is easy:
'My house having burned to the ground
I can see the moon'.
"Barn's burnt down
Deletenow I can see the moon."
That in itself would be an appropriate theme for a post -, see most recent one from the Professor.
That's a good idea. I'll have a read of the Prof's post, too,
DeleteAlthough it's the one in widest circulation, I think 'barn' is a poor translation of kura yakete. Kura means something more like 'storehouse', it's where one's household valuables were kept. 'Barn' in English suggests an agricultural building and doesn't quite capture the sense of material loss in the original, which is more encompassing than just the loss of hay or grain.
In today's news from Israel, Netanyahu seems to be moving a step closer to ditching his most controversial coalition partners, Smotrich and Ben Gvir, and teaming up with the middle-of-the-road Benny Gantz instead.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.jpost.com/israel-news/politics-and-diplomacy/article-755260
A worrying trend?
ReplyDeleteRussian priest investigated for blessing Stalin statue - BBC News