Jerusalem, Jerusalem

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No words .... 













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  1. Bell18 October 2023 at 06:13

    I personally am not afraid of nuclear war. I'm only afraid of surviving it. If we wish to avoid it, we need to step back and look at what is happening here from a theological point of view. The problem we have is that -- at least since the Second World War -- we've lost sight of what Christianity, and especially Catholicism, is all about. Let's start from a single question -- is the Mosaic Covenant still in force, or did it end at the moment of Christ's death on the cross? If you hold that it IS still in force, you are a dual covenanter, and there's simply no way around this. Bishop Barron's interview with Ben Shapiro WAS a true reflection of Catholic doctrine in that the Church is merely "the privileged way", but there are others. If that IS your position, then the unqualified, unconditional support of the state of Israel, no matter what it does, is justified.

    However, if you believe the Mosaic Covenant DID end with the crucifixion, then Jews are no more special than any other group of people. They're not cursed, or damned or held in especially odium by God, but they require baptism just the same as everyone else and they have no particular status beyond that of anyone else, including the Palestinians. There's a new covenant in force.

    If this is the case, then we need to step back and say, "wait, why are we giving blind, unconditional support to Israel? Is it not time we started looking at this from the same point of view as we did with, say Rhodesia, when another group of white settlers took over a country they didn't own?" We did not accept the racist underpinnings of Ian Smith's Rhodesia; why are we supporting the Israeli equivalent? In a nutshell, what makes Israel so special?

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    1. Happy Jack18 October 2023 at 12:57

      From HJ's point of view, this isn't primarily a theological question. Israel is a State and, as such, has a right to defend herself. Hamas and Iran are terrorists intent on her destruction.

      One can argue 'til the cows come home about the Balfour Document and the duplicity of Britain towards the Arabs during WW1 and WW2. One can lament the position of the Palestinians and the injustices they face; lament the terrorism behind the early Zionist movement; and the role of America and Russia for geopolitical reasons. All that said, Israel today - 2023 - is a nation State with all the rights and responsibilities that entails.

      Delete
    2. Bell18 October 2023 at 20:24

      Facts on the ground?

      Delete
    3. Bell18 October 2023 at 20:30

      Since the entire Israeli claim on Palestine is completely based on a religion, I don't see how the question is not theological. No Christian can accept the Jewish claim unless they are also dual covenanters. If, like me, they are supersessionists, then there is nothing special about Israel. It's a thug state founded and run by racial supremacists. They don't get respectability.

      Delete
    4. Happy Jack18 October 2023 at 21:19

      The history of secular, cultural, and religious Zionism and the eventual establishment of an Israeli State, is far more complex than your simplistic assertion: "Since the entire Israeli claim on Palestine is completely based on a religion ... "

      You should do some research.

      Delete
  2. Little Hobb19 October 2023 at 18:30

    If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning.
    If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.

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    Replies
    1. Bell20 October 2023 at 11:59

      The Psalms were written 3000 years ago, Hobb. You're aware there's been a development since then?

      Delete

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