Divine Intervention - Trump Chosen by God To Save America?
“We are deeply grateful to Our Lord who saved this brave warrior, who did not lack the strength to stand up and invite his supporters to fight.”
(Carlo Maria Viganò)
"Trump went very, very near to having his head blown off, and they say (though I can’t really reconstruct it from the video) that a face movement was what saved him from a full hit. This, too, was the work of God. God who sees all injustice perpetrated by evil politicians against Trump (and, if you ask me, more likely than not by a criminal, murderous deep state) has allowed him to shine, turning the evil of his enemies against them."
(Mundabor)
Is Trump a flawed actor that God is using to Divine ends in American politics?
Many believe so.
Dr. Ben Carson, former Trump cabinet member, posted
that the Trump assassination attempt was just the latest in a series of trials
that God will set right: “They tried to bankrupt him. They tried to
slander him. They tried to imprison him. Now they have tried to kill him, but
if God is protecting him, they will never succeed.”
Carson believes that Trump is being protected by
God as part of a larger design for the country. “Trump is called for this moment in history,” Carson wrote, adding
that “God is not done with our country.”
Christian Charlie Kirk of Turning Point USA, insisted that
Carson was “100% right.” Kirk suggested a “gust of
wind” may have “pushed that bullet ever so slightly.” Kirk
added that “the Holy Spirit in scripture is often associated with a
gust of wind.” And he insisted, “God’s hand is on Donald
Trump.”
The evangelist Lance Wallnau helped popularize the
notion that Trump is a modern-day Cyrus, an Old Testament pagan king whom God
used for Divine purposes. Wallnau said that a nicking of Trump’s ear, instead of a deadly wound, proved that God
is “ruling in the details.”
Trump himself wrote, it was “God alone who prevented the unthinkable from happening.” The post continued “We will FEAR NOT, but instead remain resilient in our Faith and Defiant in the face of Wickedness,” it said, adding that Americans should be united in not allowing “Evil to Win.”
America is
at a crossroads. What's causing me despondence is the increasing claims God's
Providence" saved" Trump from assassination (which it did - "He
sees the end from the beginning") in order to "anoint" him to
"save" America by assuring Trump of election victory.
God's ways are mysterious to us and it's simplistic to project our own "truths" into our understanding particular tragedies or seeming miraculous near misses. We shouldn't project our own politics or faith onto this event. If God is using this to say anything surely it's that America needs to pull back from hatred and division. If there's a message, surely it's that the violent rhetoric on both sides of the increasing divide needs to go.
Perhaps God's intention is to say to Americans it's time to "lay down your arms" metaphorically and in actuality.
I have to say that I've found the 'God's hand is on Trump' rhetoric a bit distasteful in light of the fact that the family man standing behind him, whom God presumably didn't deign to protect, ended up with a bullet in him and a grieving widow.
ReplyDeleteExactly - perhaps Corey Comperatore wasn't one of "God's favoured"!
DeleteWhat the world doesn't need is an arrogant egotist believing that God is on his side. Such a scenario usually ends badly with a lot of innocent dead.
ReplyDeleteTrump is a sleaze bag, who would be a very poor example for the role of God's champion.
King David was an adulterer who spied on a married woman bathing, had her brought to him, 'lay with her' (whether that was consensual is open to debate) and then had her husband murdered.
DeleteAbraham was a serial liar who pimped out his wife to Pharaoh to save his own skin.
Jacob was a trickster who stole his bother's birthright.
Rahab was a prostitute and/or brothel keeper, but is listed among the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11.
Not many of the biblical champions were upstanding characters.
And? What's the lesson we're meant to learn? Vote for the serial adulterator, psychopath and murderer? Certainly it would come as no shock to hear that Trump is a brothel keeper, but is it meant to be a recommendation and a requirement?
DeleteAnd? What's the lesson we're meant to learn? Vote for the serial adulterator, psychopath and murderer? Certainly it would come as no shock to hear that Trump is a brothel keeper, but is it meant to be a recommendation and a requirement?
DeleteI think the point is that, should He choose to do so, God can work through even the worst of people. One of the big problems people have with the Christian God is that we have fallen into the habit of judging Him by human standards. What we all forget is that He has rights no human does. He can kill. We can't. WE adjust to HIM, not the other way around. Faith involves the supposition that when He does or allows things which we find questionable, He does not do them lightly or arbitrarily. There is always a reason behind them, and that reason will always be within the tradition or plan of creation. Nothing is done just because He can. Perhaps the easiest way to think of Him is as a mediaeval king, exercising rights which his subjects do not have. There is an echo of this still existing in the law in the concepts of act of state and defence of the realm, by which a court will not question an action of a government which, on its face, is illegal.
DeleteNo, clearly that's not the lesson to be learned; the quasi-Messianic fervour around Trump from some figures on the American Christian right is equally as dangerous as the left's relentless attempts to portray him as Hitler.
DeleteMy point is simply that one's past doesn't preclude one from being a champion of God, 'for the LORD does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart'. Indeed, the Scriptural pattern is the opposite - 'not many noble are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen'. In Acts 9, Ananias is chastised by Christ for balking at the idea of baptising the murderous egotist Saul of Tarsus.
Many of our greatest saints from the desert tradition come from backgrounds that make Trump look like a boy scout. St. Mary of Egypt was a harlot who was so captured by lust that she refused to charge her customers, and survived by spinning flax and begging. She accompanied a group of young men going to visit the church of the Holy Cross in Jerusalem, seducing many of them en route. But when she arrived at the church, she was prevented by an unseen force from entering, was driven to repentance by an icon of the Theotokos, renounced her worldly life and fled to the desert to do battle with wild beats and her passions, becoming an exemplar of holiness and godly obedience.
St. Moses the Ethiopian was an escaped slave who became the leader of a group of bandits and led a life of fornication, murder and robbery, striking terror into the locals before his conversion, when he joined a monastery and was later martyred. He became a model of humility, relentless prayer and the refusal to judge others (and my patron saint, as it happens).
None of this means that Trump is 'God's chosen one'; as I've said, I think that's a dangerous way of thinking. But it does mean that we shouldn't dismiss him simply because we find his character and past unpleasant; perhaps we'd be better off praying that he can meet God in a deeper way than using a Bible as a photo-op. Who knows, perhaps this brush with death will be his Damascus moment. But ultimately, if the Gospel means anything, it means that God can redeem and use the 'chief of sinners' and for that, I am grateful.
Dr Bell diagnoses an extreme case of Trump Derangement Syndrome in Clive. The causes are not, as yet, established, but the classic symptoms are
Deletea) an Calvinist explosion of self-righteousness whenever Trump's name is mentioned
b) the belief that Trump's shortcomings are uniquely evil and far surpass anything any other politician ever exhibited and
c) the complete inability to bring any dispassionate sense of prudential judgement to bear when contemplating the Orange One.
Really is that the best you've got? How dreadful of me to think a serial adulterator, who boasts of sexually assaulting women, who mocks the disabled, lent support to his followers when they invaded Congress, might not be the right person to be President.
DeleteOh well, I suppose it's Catholic fellow feeling for those who use their status to sexually assault those weaker than themselves.
B. Is pathetic. It's the , of course he's a sexual abusing sleazeball, but there are other politicians also like this, as well, so why care about it? Argument.
Usually the commentator mentions Bill Clinton at this juncture.
Ps I'm not a Calvinist.
DeleteMy apologies, Clive. The word I should have used was "Calvinistic," rather than "Calvinist." However, you're only confirming the diagnosis. There is no evidence he supported the mass trespass on Congress, and if you're being honest with yourself, you know perfectly well it wasn't an "insurrection." If it were, then similar events in the statehouses of Montana and Arkansas by Democrats would be "insurrections" too. I don't really consider them such, just as you don't really consider Jan 6th to be an "insurrection," and I don't believe I'm advancing my cause by claiming I do. That's a matter of prudential judgement, which I'm still capable of utilizing, despite my contempt for the left. The point of Clinton being equally a sexually abusing sleazebag is not to give ourselves leave to forget about it, it's to question why it's acceptable to vote for Clinton knowing he was what he was -- a position, by the way, which I understand, and known in American law as "taking with knowledge" -- but the same qualities in Trump should disqualify him. No, I'm sorry, I'm afraid something more is going on here. And I do think the "Catholic fellow feeling" thing was a little gratuitous.
DeleteSome points. Please quote where I use the word insurrection?
DeleteDitto where did I say it was alright to vote for Clinton?
I was irritated about being called a Calvinist .
I note that you haven't commented on the sexual abuse and mocking the disabled.
Again, apologies. I had assumed that in a two horse race, if you weren't cheering for one horse, you were cheering for the other. It is, of course, perfectly possible you don't care either way. If I haven't commented on the abuse accusations, it's because I had further assumed you would not take endorsement for the man today to be endorsement for the acts of the past. Clearly that was a mistaken assumption on my part. As was my assumption that you would withdraw the statement about "Catholic fellow feelings."
DeleteFirstly, yes I meant to withdraw the Catholic comment and I do so now. I shouldn't have said it
DeleteIf I was asked the question , is God on bill Clintons side, my answer would have been similar to what I said about the orange man.
Regards sex abuse, he has neither apologised or publicly repented, so I feel it's still an open issue.
I do care about the race, I just refuse to get all gooey and irrational about the suitability of either candidate, based simply on my political preferences .
I think God expects more of us.
Actually, I'm slowly coming around the the -- admittedly unlikely -- position that God IS taking a hand and using Donald Trump. I know, I know, it sounds ridiculous, but is it any more ridiculous than the trans movement, or the fact that, a bare thirty years after the fall of communism, the west is turning communist? Ben Carson sees the hand of God in every passing zephyr, so I wouldn't give his ruminations on this too much weight. But you have to admit, Trump is Mandrake. I mean, he's like Neo in The Matrix. He's dodged every metaphorical bullet the Democrats have fired at him, and now he's actually dodged a literal, tangible bullet. It was like the Day of the Jackal, when the assassin missed because De Gaulle bent his head an inch out of the crosshairs. Of course, I have no idea how the mind of God works, but why do we find the idea of God using Trump so unlikely when we more or less accept, however tacitly, that He used the Emperor Constantine, who was a far more flawed and bloody man?
ReplyDeleteAs HJ wrote:
DeleteIf God is using this to say anything surely it's that America needs to pull back from hatred and division. If there's a message, surely it's that the violent rhetoric on both sides of the increasing divide needs to go.
I dunno, Jack. I'm increasingly disdainful of the "there's plenty of blame to go around" narrative. To me, it ALL seems to be coming from the left. We hear much about the right being armed to the teeth under the second amendment, but were the right the ones burning cities in "mostly peaceful protests?" Were the right the ones telling their supporters to "get up in their faces" if they see a Democrat lawmaker, as Maxine Waters told her claque? If you think you're "on the right side of history," but history isn't delivering the world into your hand as its supposed to, you can either ditch the "historical inevitability" claptrap, recognising it for the nonsense it always was, or you can double down with right-wing conspiracies foiling what destiny has decreed, and pretty soon you start to feel justified in fighting the "existential threat," and fighting it "by any means necessary."
DeleteAlternatively, the legal action failed because it was frivolous, and the would-be assassin was a 20 year old who found that accurate long range shooting isn't as easy as Call of Duty makes it out to be. While we can be grateful that the situation wasn't much worse, and America isn't currently in flames, we shouldn't be too quick to see signs where there perhaps aren't any.
Delete"Lethal."
DeleteIt was an accurate shot - way too close - and HJ understands why it is being called "miraculous." If there was Divine intervention, I believe it was to prevent major bloodshed — even civil war — in the USA. This bullet came way too close to causing major devastation in America and potentially worldwide.
Perhaps, but then one needs to explain why God didn't protect Archduke Franz Ferdinand and prevent the death and destruction of the First World War, or why he allowed Hitler to ('miraculously') survive multiple assassination attempts that could have ended the carnage of the Second World War. Trump moved, and the shooter missed. Sometimes physics is just physics.
DeleteThat's just it, from our perspective and position in time, we cannot "explain" particular events. All we can know it that God is the Lord over all history.
DeleteGod's Providence and Predestination are two great mysteries.
Of course. God is the source of all things, so in one sense everything that has ever happened or will ever happen is an 'act of God'. But did God directly intervene to tilt Trump's head, or puff the bullet a little to the left, changing the outcome determined by physics? I don't see any reason why we should affirm that kind of intervention in this case, simply because it seems a better outcome, and deny it in the myriad other events big and small that happen each day when it's not (unless we fall into the Calvinist idea of God as a stage manager directing the prewritten script that is history). And for all we know, surviving this might turn Trump into a bitter tyrant who does indeed become a dictator and unleash misery on America. Or his second term might be a disaster that bankrupts the country, brings down the West and starts WW3. Claims of miracles and providence do seem to require a degree of clairvoyance.
DeleteI don't think that there is or has to be a supernatural reason for everything; we tie ourselves in theological knots trying to explain how things like the Shoah or this incident can be part of 'God's great plan for us', when they're just supreme acts of human evil or simply random occurrences in accordance with the laws of the universe in which we live.
"But did God directly intervene to tilt Trump's head, or puff the bullet a little to the left, changing the outcome determined by physics?
DeleteIn this life, no one knows! However, it's extremely unlikely it would meet the Catholic Church's criteria for a miracle. A miracle is an extraordinary phenomenon that cannot be explained by any natural cause - “a sign or wonder such as a healing, or control of nature, which can only be attributed to divine power.”
Yes, I also struggle to believe that this is a 'miracle' by theological standards, or a Calvinistic example of theological determinism. It is, however, an extremely lucky escape if the narrative is accepted, but - and quite possibly I have imbibed too many 'alternative' views of history in recent years! - I may still feel like Doubting Thomas until I see the actual hole in Trump's ear (or footage of the speeding bullet or a cellphone video from behind the podium). Anyway, at least candidates for leader of the free world may now get proper security protection.
DeleteHmm, it is I, Gajdo Dilo, dunno why I am anonymous here...
DeleteHow much influence, if any, can a vice president exert over foreign policy? Not much, would be my guess. All the same, this quote from J. D. Vance, a couple of years back, is worth recalling: "I don't really care what happens in Ukraine one way or the other."
ReplyDeleteThe Republican position as HJ understands it is that Ukraine should seek peace with Russia and that it's not a matter for America or NATO.
DeleteI think that may be more the 'MAGA' position than the 'Republican' position (as voiced by speaker Mike Johnson, for example).
DeleteOk HJ why has my comment disappeared?
ReplyDeleteIn summary, the idea of the orange coloured egotist believing he had God's support and protection fill me with unease!
I think this is the last thing we'd want☹️
It went into "spam" for some reason.
DeleteDivine intervention?
I think it's undeniable that the left is disproportionately responsible for acts of political violence - see the BLM riots, the Paris riots, Jo Brand's comments about throwing acid at Nigel Farage, and the depiction of Trump as Literally Hitler and an existential threat to America (what good patriot wouldn't try to take out such a person?) The Democrat line has consistently been that Trump must be stopped, or 'eliminated' at any cost. And when you dehumanise your opponent, as history shows, anything is justified.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, the idea that God can work through Trump, as indeed he can work through the worst of us (see God's use of the pagan emperor Cyrus), is, I think, being conflated with the narrative that God is using Trump in quasi-Messianic sense and preserving him for this mission in a way not seen since biblical times. This, too, is dangerous, because if God is on your side it gives you permission to strike down those who oppose him. A lot of blood has been shed for that particular fallacy throughout history, and I worry that America's peculiarly Calvinistic understanding of religion (and its delusion of being the 'shining city on a hill') make it much easier for people to fall into that error.
Devotees of Trump have long proclaimed he was chosen by God to save the United States. This messianic fervour is hitting new and dangerous heights. Mythologizing and building up that cult around Trump is theologically unsound.
DeleteElection day is 5 November. Just 16 weeks to go.
ReplyDeleteTrump people have a slogan -- they're not after him, they're after you; he's just in the way. I think this is correct. The reason the left hates -- and I don't mean "dislikes", I mean "hates" -- Trump with such a passion is that, buffoonish exterior notwithstanding, he has a strong and visceral understanding of what they're up to -- albeit an incoherently expressed one -- and he's leading a movement against it, with considerable success. He really is "in the way."
ReplyDeleteTo the left, people are commodities, the same as iron ore, or oil, or natural gas, and you harvest them exactly the same way. The brutality and inhumanity of this is always completely lost on them because they only see some rainbow vision of utopia at the end of the struggle, and that vision is so noble that anything done in its name is justified. It doesn't matter if they lie, or cheat, or even kill in its pursuit. To them, truth and honesty and respect for individual life are things which have no value or meaning in and of themselves. They matter only inasmuch as they benefit or hinder the vision.
This is a disease, it's not a political philosophy, not unless you call Nazism a political philosophy. It's man in the service of the state, not the state in the service of man. It's gleichschaltung, the totalitarian control and forceable coordination of everything within the state. It's why the Nazis were unquestionably men of the left. If you think this is Godwin's law, I would disagree. If they WERE men of the left, then they're subject to the same shortcomings as leftists are always subject to, the first and most obvious of which is that they simply do not learn, at least not at the strategic level. They learn TACTICALLY, ie, they learn how to advance their wickedness more effectively, but they never learn that it IS wickedness. Outright force didn't work? Well, we'll have to try something else. Infiltration, salami slicing, the long march through the institutions, shuffling around the protected and the demonised groups as the situation on the ground demands. Whatever works, it doesn't matter who suffers today because it'll all be jam for everyone tomorrow.
The more I see of the left in action, the more confirmed in my Christianity I become, and the more I understand why Trump is -- incredible as this sounds -- a Christ-like figure in that he's standing against the evil that dominates the world today, just as Christ did 2000 years ago. Don't misunderstand me, I don't for a second think of him as any kind of second coming. There have been many who've stood against evil societies in the years since Calvary. I'm simply saying he shouldn't be dismissed just because he's a crass, loudmouthed vulgarian with a bad personal history. A sinner, in other words.
Much of the Establishment's (in which I include both the left and the right, which are terms that are becoming increasingly redundant in modern politics) revulsion to Trump can be, I think, understood by looking at the sneering disregard that the landed aristocracy had (has) for the nouveau riche for the last few centuries: how dare these vulgar upstarts consider themselves equal to us? When Trump was a bellicose businessman and TV celebrity, he was tolerated and even appeared on Oprah's hallowed show in 1998. But as soon as he went above his station and started to interfere in the business of the Establishment elites, he was vilified.
DeleteThe peasantry has always been viewed as an inconvenience by the ruling classes, which is why the inclusion of commoners in parliament was resisted for so long. Trump is a figurehead for the commoner, disturbing the peaceful transition of power and money between our betters. He doesn't speak their language or subscribe to their shibboleths, and as such he is a danger to them. Their hysterical attacks on him - as an 'existential threat' who will undermine the fabric of the nation - is not dissimilar to the charges levelled at those who opposed the divine right of kings; because our so-called elites do believe that they have something like a divine right to rule. The same is true of the reaction to Farage, another grotty outsider who's spoiling the croquet lawn.
Under the heading "Europe should prepare for president Vance", the Spectator website has just posted an article by Stephen Daisley about the possible changes in foreign policy to be expected if Trump wins in November. Not behind the usual paywall. Recommended reading.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.spectator.co.uk/article/europe-should-get-ready-for-a-vance-presidency/
" The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.. that gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate". ~Noam Chomsky.
ReplyDeleteThis quote comes to mind on learning that an American pop band which has been together for thirty years, has had its tour cancelled and been disbanded because one of the band members made a joke about Trump's assassination survival at a concert n Australia. Evidently Trump has been deified already. You can make jokes about Jesus but you can't make them about Donald Trump without serious consequences....Cressida
Happy Jack ears you, Cressie.
DeleteThat's a very wise quote, I think there's a lot of truth to it.
DeleteSupporting free speech also means supporting people's rights to make tasteless jokes (or bad dad jokes, like HJ's), and I'm surprised at the witch hunt that's sprung up outing people on social media and getting them fired. I thought that the right was against 'cancel culture'. As I understand it, that band member has apologised, and in my opinion their tour should continue.
What's more troubling is the number of people who are not just making jokes, but specifically advocating another attempt. For example, a surgeon made a Facebook post detailing what drugs a sniper should take to steady their aim, and what longer-range weapons would be suitable for a second attempt (on Trump or Biden!) now that increased security would prevent anybody getting that close again. It's concerning that the political climate is such that educated professionals, rather than random nuts, feel free to openly make such remarks. But that's not surprising when the tone was set by celebrities pulling stunts like this hours after Trump's election.
We must be careful not to conflate bad jokes with genuine threats, however.
Of course, any comedian could pose beside a dummy Obama’s severed head like that and nobody would see anything to complain about at all, would they?
Delete@Bell
DeleteHJ never makes bad jokes, sir!
@Ray - can you imagine? Half of America would be on fire.
Delete@Jack - I think you meant to respond to me there. Is HJ having a Biden moment?
HJ has a bad cold ....
DeleteIs HJ having a Biden moment?
DeleteSo it wood up ear.
https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-indicted-for-inciting-assassination-attempt/
ReplyDeleteI post this link because...well...there seems to be a certain..."attitude" about Trump, and not all of it from CNN.
https://babylonbee.com/news/how-cnn-reported-on-7-famous-assassinations
DeleteThis one's pretty funny, too.
Facebook post by Democratic House Rep. Bennie Thompson's Case Manager and Field Director, Jacqueline Marsaw:
Delete"I don't condone violence but please get you some shooting lessons so you don't miss next time oops that wasn't me saying that."
The mask has well and truly slipped. A yoga teacher allegedly posted on Facebook:
DeleteDamn it he didn't die. Well at least one supporter did. I'll take what I can get. My heart goes out to the shooter. Know that he died doing what needed to be done. Hopefully someone will accomplish the task before we vote.
There are hundreds of posts along these lines. These people are insane.
It's all very eary ...
DeleteYour puns are getting very earritating.
DeleteSurely you mean earresistible, although maybe somewhat earesponsible.
DeleteI've just remembered that play they performed after Trump was elected first time, the Trump-as-Caesar version of Shakespeare's Julius Caesar. Whole new take on "...lend me your ears."
DeleteNot forgetting Polonius' "Give every man thy ear ..."
DeleteStill following the conversation. Hello to everybody.
ReplyDeleteHello again, N. E. You've been very quiet lately. Is everything okay?
DeleteRather tired, and finding it hard to form opinions. Maybe I read too many articles, and watch too many videos.
DeleteHJ frequently feels the same, NE. Trying to understand and appreciate all perspectives is challenging!
DeleteAnd hello to you, NE.
DeleteOne agrees that 'rather tired' is an ongoing state of mind, but one also finds that the opinion most readily formed these days is "Don't believe what they are telling you!" This place is pretty good for a variety of considered opinions, and one might also recommend the podcasts put out by Doc Malik, a cancelled Pakistani-Glaswegian medic.
A.k.a. Gadjo Dilo.
Delete"I don't condone violence but please get you some shooting lessons so you don't miss next time oops that wasn't me saying that."
ReplyDeleteI have news for you, Ms. Marsaw. The addressee of your adoring fanmail kicked the bucket that very same day, courtesy of the Secret Service. Do try and keep up.
Yesterday, I rode to an arboretum and had a lovely day walking through the trees and reading a book in the shade. Today, I'm wearing a coat and hiding from the rain. What is going on with this summer?
ReplyDelete