Assisted Suicide

Should One Use Religious Arguments in this Debate?

I stumbled across this somewhat contradictory article that explores the history of euthanasia and assisted suicide in Holland and Belgium - and its increase. It shows out how 'Reformed' theologians and ethicists actually led the way in presenting 'Christian' arguments in support of these practices. 

It's an "interesting" read.

It starts by arguing the debate in liberal-democracies should not be framed in religious terms:

Using religious arguments … are a terrible match for other arguments. Using religious arguments may have a similar effect on ethical discussions as using the word ‘bomb' on an airport: try using it, and you will discover that nothing remains the same. After all, if you tell your audience that God does not allow euthanasia or that God does allow it, what else is there to be said? If the creator of the universe, the power behind the big bang, the creator of 100 billion galaxies, tells us that we should, or should not, allow a specific practice, what other possible reaction is there than to reverently bow our heads and say, ‘Thy will be done'? Resort to religious arguments may torpedo an open, rational, and empirically informed discussion on the pros and cons of euthanasia. It may lead to intellectual sloth rather than foster curiosity. Religion may tempt religious people to ignore rational and empirical arguments, and insofar as they do embrace these arguments, it sometimes remains to be seen whether their use is wholehearted and open-minded. Do these empirical arguments not come in handy to serve their preconceived religious narrative?

I do believe that there is a God, and I am open to the possibility that our choices about life and death matter to God. However, I also believe that if there is a ‘will of God,' the best way to find it out is by exploring all accessible epistemic sources, be it tradition, experience, nature, reason, logic, intuition, and positive law. Religion does not discard these sources but rather justifies and explores them. To name an example outside the realm of euthanasia: I support the UNFCCC Paris climate agreement. The reason is not that God tells us to, nor because the Bible does; it is because scientific evidence tells us that human behaviour is the leading cause of the present climate crisis.

The experience that some religious arguments have a ‘take it or leave it' character and have inscrutable epistemological origins has led some secularised audiences not to take seriously the arguments brought forward by religious people. The allergy to religion can become excessive. Some seem to have come to the point of discarding any argument brought forward by religious people. As soon as they learn that Columbus was a Catholic, these people will tend to question the very existence of America. The vice of intellectual sloth is thus found not only amongst religious people, but also in those who reject religious arguments. On multiple occasions, I have experienced that my arguments were discarded beforehand based on my tenure at a theological university. Some forget that arguments from religious people are not necessarily religious arguments; they may still be understandable, convincing, and conclusive. Religion may form the heuristic context to discern values, but is not necessarily their sole epistemological source nor provides their sole justification. We need a détente between religion and reason, not an escalation of the battle,

His position, of course, is anathema to Catholic and Orthodox Churches, and to those in more orthodox evangelical churches. At it's root (the use of "tradition, experience, nature, reason, logic, intuition, and positive law") also contradicts the more traditional Reform position that man's reason and experience falls under the consequences of the Fall and, like the rest of our mental and spiritual facilities, suffers the consequences of "total depravity". 

The author concludes by arguing against assisted suicide but supporting euthanasia ("mercy killing") in exceptional situations provided it is authorised beforehand by a Court.

As a medical ethicist and a theologian, I have repeatedly stated that I do not reject euthanasia. I could and can imagine the exceptional case of killing a patient when nothing else can ease unbearable suffering. Many are familiar with the classroom example of the truck driver who is stuck in his cabin after crashing into a concrete wall and begs a bystander to kill him before he is devoured by fire-killing the driver, in my opinion, may be the least bad alternative. This position has brought me criticism from religious voices, especially from those who argue that I should categorically reject any intentional and direct killing of an innocent human being. However, with Martin Luther, echoing St. Augustine, my position on euthanasia is “pecca fortiter” - sin courageously, if you think no other option is left.

As a religious person, I should be open to discern any element of truth, however inconvenient. In my perception, all these developments testify against an aspect that needs to be faced: that legalising assisted dying is seldom the end of a trajectory of deliberations. Instead, it is the onset of new discussions and further expansion of the practice. Legal euthanasia does more than just giving some people the liberty to opt for another way to die; it revolutionises the fabric of society. Not only life but also death increasingly becomes a project. The liberty of some to choose assisted dying obliges everyone else to face that same option at the end of the day. After all, when a society legalises and facilitates killing thousands of its citizens annually, this is not a signal to those patients only. It is a signal to a whole group of patients-and, in the Netherlands, an ever-expanding group of patients and their relatives-that they may in fact be right if they no longer want to live.

Through legalising assisted dying, the liberal society thus bites its tail. I think that there is an inalienable moral right to kill oneself, provided one is competent and knows what one is doing. However, it is unwise to support this right in the form of assistance in dying. In the long run, no society, religious or not, can afford to organise the killing of groups of its own citizens. The best way to guarantee the exceptional character of mercy killing is by keeping it where it is most safely kept: in the Criminal Code. 


Here's a "Christian" case for assisted dying made in 2014 by Reverend Paul Badham, Professor Emeritus of Theology and Religious Studies, University of Wales:

Jesus’ key teaching
A Christian case for supporting assisted dying is based on Jesus’ teaching that the whole of religious law and prophetic teaching can be summarised as requiring us to love God and to love our neighbour as ourselves. Jesus’ golden rule was that we should always treat others as we wish to be treated ourselves. Applying this to assisted dying the argument is: When people’s sufferings are so great that they make repeated requests to die, it seems a denial of that loving compassion which is supposed to be the hallmark of Christianity to refuse their requests. If we truly love our neighbours as ourselves how can we deny them the death we would wish for ourselves in such a condition?

Do no murder
Some reject this argument because murder is forbidden by the sixth of the Ten Commandments. However the reason murder is condemned is that it is an act that deprives another person of all that life offers. But when a dying person is already being deprived of life by a terminal illness and wants help to hasten that process, the situation is rather different. However our natural abhorrence of taking another person’s life is the reason why in Britain the campaign is for assisted dying rather than voluntary euthanasia. In voluntary euthanasia the doctor administers a lethal drug. In assisted dying, patients must be able to self-administer so that right to the end it is their own choice.

God and the hour of our death
Some argue that only God should decide the hour of our death. But we need to be consistent. If we truly believed that only God should determine the hour of our death, then we should think it as wrong to use medical means to extend life as to shorten it. In past ages many Christians held precisely that view. Today if a person’s heart stops we assume that the hospital should normally attempt resuscitation even though for most of human history the time when the heart stopped was seen as the time that God had chosen to end that person’s life.

Suffering
Consistency is also needed in our attitude to suffering. We cannot say that that assisted dying is wrong because suffering is part of God’s plan for us unless we are prepared, as Pope John Paul II was, to say that palliative care is also problematic. He believed that dying Christians should moderate their use of pain killers so that they could share in the suffering of Christ. Fortunately few carers adopt that position.

Parallels between birth and death
Similar issues arise with contraception. The papal encyclical against euthanasia uses the same arguments as the encyclical against contraception. Yet the vast majority of Christians today, including most catholic couples, believe in the legitimacy of planning when a new life should begin. To be consistent we should hold that if it is morally legitimate to seek medical assistance in the timing of birth and in the avoidance of suffering during birth it should be equally right to seek medical help and assistance in the timing of death and in the avoidance of suffering while dying.


On a sounder and more traditional note, here is the response of the Catholic Church in England and Wales.

Pastoral Letter on Assisted Suicide - Cardinal Vincent Nichols

My brothers and sisters, 

This Wednesday, 16 October 2024, a bill will be introduced to Parliament proposing a change in the law to permit assisted suicide. The debate will continue for a number of months, in society and in Parliament, before a definitive vote is held there. This puts in the spotlight crucial questions about the dignity of human life and the care and protection afforded by our society to every human being.

As this debate unfolds there are three points I would like to put before you. I hope that you will take part in the debate, whenever and wherever you can, and that you will write to your Member of Parliament.

The first point is this: Be careful what you wish for.

No doubt the bill put before Parliament will be carefully framed, providing clear and very limited circumstances in which it would become lawful to assist, directly and deliberately, in the ending of a person’s life. But please remember, the evidence from every single country in which such a law has been passed is clear: that the circumstances in which the taking of a life is permitted are widened and widened, making assisted suicide and medical killing, or euthanasia, more and more available and accepted. In this country, assurances will be given that the proposed safeguards are firm and reliable. Rarely has this been the case. This proposed change in the law may be a source of relief to some. But it will bring great fear and trepidation to many, especially those who have vulnerabilities and those living with disabilities. What is now proposed will not be the end of the story. It is a story better not begun.

The second point is this: A right to die can become a duty to die.

A law which prohibits an action is a clear deterrent. A law which permits an action changes attitudes: that which is permitted is often and easily encouraged. Once assisted suicide is approved by the law, a key protection of human life falls away. Pressure mounts on those who are nearing death, from others or even from themselves, to end their life in order to take away a perceived burden of care from their family, for the avoidance of pain, or for the sake of an inheritance.

I know that, for many people, there is profound fear at the prospect of prolonged suffering and loss of dignity. Yet such suffering itself can be eased. Part of this debate, then, must be the need and duty to enhance palliative care and hospice provision, so that there can genuinely be, for all of us, the prospect of living our last days in the company of loved ones and caring medical professionals. This is truly dying with dignity. Indeed, the radical change in the law now being proposed risks bringing about for all medical professionals a slow change from a duty to care to a duty to kill.

The third point is this: Being forgetful of God belittles our humanity.

The questions raised by this bill go to the very heart of how we understand ourselves, our lives, our humanity. For people of faith in God - the vast majority of the population of the world - the first truth is that life, ultimately, is a gift of the Creator. Our life flows from God and will find its fulfilment in God. ‘The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.’ (Job 1:21) To ignore or deny this truth is to separate our humanity from its origins and purpose. We are left, floating free, detached, in a sphere that lacks firm anchors or destiny, thinking that we can create these for ourselves according to the mood of the age, or even of the day.

The clearest expression of this faith is that every human being is made in the image and likeness of God. That is the source of our dignity and it is unique to the human person. The suffering of a human being is not meaningless. It does not destroy that dignity. It is an intrinsic part of our human journey, a journey embraced by the Eternal Word of God, Christ Jesus himself. He brings our humanity to its full glory precisely through the gateway of suffering and death. 

We know, only too well, that suffering can bring people to a most dreadful state of mind, even driving them to take their own lives, in circumstances most often when they lack true freedom of mind and will, and so bear no culpability. But this proposed legislation is quite different. It seeks to give a person of sound will and mind the right to act in a way that is clearly contrary to a fundamental truth: our life is not our own possession, to dispose of as we feel fit. This is not a freedom of choice we can take for ourselves without undermining the foundations of trust and shared dignity on which a stable society rests.

As this debate unfolds, then, I ask you to play your part in it. Write to your MP. Have discussions with family, friends and colleagues. And pray. Please remember: be careful what you wish for; the right to die can become a duty to die; being forgetful of God belittles our humanity.

May God bless us all at this critical time.

✠ Cardinal Vincent Nichols
Archbishop of Westminster


The Reality of “Assisted Suicide”

The ‘horrifying’, ‘brutal’ and unspoken truth of what assisted suicide is really like.

In their appeal to end suffering with assisted suicide Carey and co are wide of the mark because they are peddling the myth that only a lethal cocktail of drugs or a deadly jab can deliver a beautiful and serene death. This is a romantic fantasy … deaths of this kind are seldom like that at all. They are far worse.

California legalised assisted suicide in 2015 through its End of Life Option Act, which permitted doctors to prescribe lethal drugs to terminally-ill patients with the promise that an awful death could be avoided. Just a slug of “medication” and the patient keels over like Romeo in Verona.

The public was led to believe it was simple, painless and efficient. Except it isn’t, and in the autumn of 2020 Californian doctors who practised assisted suicide, fed up with dealing with distressed and agitated relatives, gathered to confront the reality of what such deaths are really like and to consider how they could improve them.

Dr Lonny Shavelson, a Berkeley doctor considered to be the leading practitioner of assisted suicide in the state, told MedicalXPress that time and again patients experienced lingering deaths.

“After two hours, people were starting to get concerned, and restless,” Shavelson said. “They wonder what’s happening. People start walking around the room, going into the kitchen. It disrupts the meditative mood. Between two and four hours – that’s not ideal. Anything over four hours we consider to be problematic. I was looking at what was happening and thinking, ‘This isn’t as good as it’s been hyped up to be’.”

“The public think that you take a pill and you’re done,” said Dr Gary Pasternak, chief medical officer of Mission Hospice in San Mateo. “But it’s more complicated than that.”

Although some patients die relatively quickly, many do not. Some hang on for six or nine hours, sometimes days.

In 2019 a patient in Oregon took 47 hours to die from a lethal cocktail and previously another man, a lung cancer sufferer named David Pruitt, ingested his entire prescription of lethal drugs and woke up after 65 hours. “What the hell happened?” he asked. “Why am I not dead?” He declined to attempt suicide again and died naturally a fortnight later. Another patient is known to have taken four days and eight hours to expire. These few cases have come to light in what remains a highly secretive practice.

Yet the truth has an uncanny knack of finding its way to the surface. When it does, it is often horrifying. Dr Brick Lantz, an Oregon orthopaedic surgeon and state director for the American Academy of Medical Ethics, in 2021 warned the British Parliament about the “brutal” and “not infrequent” failures of the drugs used in assisted suicide. “There was a nurse at the bedside of one [patient] who ended up putting a plastic bag over the patient because the patient wasn’t dying.” 

Comments

  1. Welby resigned this morning, just half an hour ago

    https://www.churchofengland.org/media/press-releases/resignation-archbishop-canterbury-statements

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    1. Not before time. He's overseen the decline and fragmentation of the Anglican Church in England and has shown himself more interested in preaching left wing liberalism than the gospel.

      Who will replace him? I suspect there's an expectation that it should be a woman, which will be interesting. In some respects, it doesn't much matter - it's bound to be another Guardianista, and so it goes.

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    2. The Crown Nominations Commission (CNC) will choose Welby’s successor. It will consist of 17 members who are expected to arrive at a majority decision. There's the Archbishop of York with another senior bishop, 6 members of the General Synod, 3 representatives of the Canterbury Diocese, and 5 overseas members chosen from the regions of the worldwide communion. There will also be a voting chair appointed by Sir Keir Starmer. In the end, the CNC will make its recommendation to the prime minister, who will convey it to the King, who makes the appointment.

      A woman supporting same sex marriage?

      It will depend on who will be the actual members of CNC and how they're chosen. Will GAFCON send delegates - will they be selected? They have stated that whilst not leaving the "Anglican Communion," they reject the Church of England and the Archbishop of Canterbury as "the first amongst equals."

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    3. Justin Welby seems to have a questionable sense of priorities (perhaps further undermined by a poor sense of theology). Unfortunately, however, I don't reckon his successor will be an improvement!

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    4. In reality, he should have gone years ago - he was theologically incapable of leading the church and lacked the courage. During Covid, his eagerness to close the churches, his failure to assert the good news that 'death hath no sting', and his messaging that you don't need to go to church at Christmas was embarrassing. Not to mention the divisiveness he has allowed to flourish in his obsession with gender and sexuality. It's ironic that his downfall was none of these, but pressure from the press and the public - the very people whose validation he chased on women bishops and SSM. What was it William Inge said about marrying the spirit of the age?

      I strongly suspect that, because York went to a man, there's going to be pressure to put a woman in Canterbury - maybe Dover? (especially if Starmer's fingerprints are going to be all over this). I think Adrian Hilton pointed out once that, should a female ABC crown a new monarch, those in the CofE who don't recognise women's ministry would be unable to recognise the new New Supreme Governor as validly coronated. And I imagine such a move would fracture what's left of the Anglican Communion.

      Even if the other provinces send delegates, I wonder what influence it will have. I don't think the ABC has (or even can?) be appointed from outside the CofE, and the house of bishops is stacked with Welbies.

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    5. Dover (Rose Hudson-Wilkin) has been setting her stall in an interview with Cathy Newman just now, saying the Welby's resignation won't help and that the root problem is the church taking the bible too literally. I'm guessing that atheist Starmer would be happy to collapse the CofE, and that King Charles would sign off on that too.
      Gadjo.

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    6. Not that the CofE seem to need anybody's help to collapse, but yes, Starmer would be very happy. Everywhere Socialists get into power, religion is either heavily repressed or banned (the destruction of the Church in the USSR, the appointment of Catholic bishops and Tibetan lamas by the CCP), because, for them, the State replaces the Church. It becomes the (allegedly) benevolent omnipresence suffusing every part of daily life, ensuring that its adherents think and do the right thing, else their neighbours report them for heresy.

      We saw something like this already during Covid: neighbours snitching on people for taking two walks a day, and weekly worship rituals with pots and pans on the doorstep on Thursday evenings.

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    7. Rose Hudson-Wilkin identified two problems - the resolution of which would generate further problems. She stated in the interview:

      "I think, for me, at the heart of this problem is the impoverished interpretation of scriptures that takes a kind of literalism when we look at biblical scriptures. That for me is part of the problem and unless we courageously address that, we are likely in the future to still find that we have a problem with abuse by people who interpret the Bible literally and say ‘God has spoken to me and God wants me to do that’."

      [This raises the issue within Anglicanism about authority and how one determines what Scripture teaches]

      "Or, indeed, to say ‘we hold the confessional seal as the highest order, and so we will not tell if somebody confesses something to us’. That’s at the heart of the problem.

      [This raises the issue of whether Confession in the Anglican church is considered to be a sacrament and, if so, whether the seal of confidentiality applies]

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    8. Neither the Catholic, Orthodox nor, as far as I know, the mainstream Anglican Church believes in the 'God has spoken to me and wants me to do that' kind of personal revelation. That's, supposedly, why Synod etc. exist, to discern God's will collectively. What she's describing is a failure of oversight, if such things are being allowed in the CofE, and, I think, a bit of a straw man.

      Somebody should press her on what she means by 'literalism'. What is 'a kind of literalism' - surely something is literal or it isn't. I doubt she's thinking of the differences between the Augustinian and C19th Evangelical understandings of literalism. A cynic might think that 'literalism' here means 'a traditional Christian understanding of things that upset Guardian readers'.

      The classical Anglican understanding of authority is found in someone like Richard Hooker, who wrote:

      Be it in matter of the one kind or of the other [doctrine or church practice], what Scripture doth plainly deliver, to that the first place both of credit and obedience is due; the next whereunto is whatsoever any man can necessarily conclude by force of reason; after these the voice of the Church succeedeth. That which the Church by her ecclesiastical authority shall probably think and define to be true or good, must in congruity of reason overrule all other inferior judgments whatsoever.

      Of course, this simply begs the question of which parts of Scripture are 'plain' and who decides that...

      This is an interesting (in parts) report into the Seal in the Anglican Church. Confession in the Anglican Church isn't recognised as a sacrament in the 39 Articles. It's rather a leftover from pre-Reformation canon law, and there are a lot of theological gymnastics at work here trying to make auricular confession an 'outworking' of the baptismal and Eucharistic sacraments. Personally, I don't see a coherent theology for the Seal - or the point of confession to a priest - on Anglican terms.

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    9. Oh, I think we know what she means by "literalism." From what I gather she nonplussed by debates on sex, marriage and homosexuality, being more concerned about the issues of women and black clergy.

      As for confession, how can it be covered by the seal of confidentiality in the Anglican church? Catholics believe that in the confessional the priest represents God Himself.

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    10. That's the result of reducing religion to what Gavin Ashenden (I think) called 'therapeutic deism'.

      No, the seal makes no sense if confession isn't a sacrament. And if it's not a sacrament, and achieves no more than congregational or personal confession, then it's no more than a pastoral encounter and is surely subject only to the same level of confidentiality as, say, counselling.

      Orthodox confession ideally takes place with both the penitent and priest facing an icon of Christ, which emphasises the fact that one is confessing to Christ and the priest is there as his minister.

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  2. Jack, my heartfelt apologies for starting off your new thread with an off-topic post. I only noticed after it was too late. I thought we were still on the previous thread. Please feel free to delete it!

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    1. No worries, Brian - I'm not the "Archbishop Cranmer" ...

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  3. At moments like this it's a matter of deep regret that we no longer have access to His Grace's words of wisdom. Or is he posting somewhere else now? If anyone here spots anything anywhere on the internet, please give us a link!
    Thank you

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    1. Here's what Adrian Hilton wrote on his X account:

      "The Church of England isn't the Conservative Party (even at prayer): we don't change leaders in response to petitions or acknowledgement of failings. The Church is supposed to be different: pointing out wrongdoing, sorrow for sin, repentance, restoration. We are supposed to put love and mercy over and above judgment and retribution. Safeguarding is important, but it so often weaponised in the Church (by bishops) in order to ‘deal with’ problem people who are plunged into a purgatory of unending innuendo and paralysis. It is used to harass and bully good people. Some rejoice that Justin Welby has been hoist by his own petard; a sense of ‘he who lives by safeguarding shall die by safeguarding’. This isn't how Christians should behave, and it isn't how the Church should do things. The objective should be change, transformation or renewal; not securing a scalp."

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  4. Justin Welby is now Justout Welby

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  5. I read a post from an NHS doctor who said 'we already have assisted dying in this country, it's called palliative care. What the government are talking about is assisted suicide.' He is correct to point out this slippery use of language; we need better palliative care in this country, and we need mindset change in the medical profession that one 'need'st not strive, officiously to keep alive'.

    I think it's utterly inappropriate how quickly this is being rushed through parliament - apparently because Starmer made a promise to Esther Rantzen. Any 'safeguards' that they place on this will be a) unworkable because they're written by politicians, who are idiots; and b) subject to being rolled back in the future - which has happened with everything else.

    I don't believe it's necessary to make a religious argument against it. The principle of 'dignity in dying' is predicated on the inherent worth of the individual (otherwise, whence comes the dignity?). If this is true, then there is a duty to safeguard the most vulnerable in society, who will be most at risk from pressure to 'protect Our Sacred NHS, hop in the death booth'.

    In principle, I don't have a problem with people doing as they wish with their own lives, although I think it's misguided. But I do think that this is a power that the state has absolutely shown it cannot be trusted with.

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    1. "In principle, I don't have a problem with people doing as they wish with their own lives, although I think it's misguided. But I do think that this is a power that the state has absolutely shown it cannot be trusted with."

      There's the rub. Once you uphold the principle in law that assisted suicide is a "right" the State should uphold and assist with, albeit subject to certain guardrails, that principle will in time be extended.

      As the paper by Theodoor A. Boer says:
      "Through legalising assisted dying, the liberal society thus bites its tail. I think that there is an inalienable moral right to kill oneself, provided one is competent and knows what one is doing. However, it is unwise to support this right in the form of assistance in dying. In the long run, no society, religious or not, can afford to organise the killing of groups of its own citizens."

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    2. Sorry but I think its time for some awful reality here. Everything in this secular world relates to cost effectiveness. It is much cheaper to rid society of the old and infirm that provide quality care in their final years.It wont appear as ruthless as the Third Reich but the result will be the same even with the camaflouage. No one wants to go to a nursing home. Most would prefer to be dead. If they were excellent well run institutions this would not be the case. No society is prepared to pay for this. Too expensive. So much for Christian held beliefs never practised by faux so called Christians....So many old people are already vulnerable to age abuse by greedy relatives impatient to get their hands on assets. How many have witnessed this. I have. I don't think it's that uncommon. Assisted dying opens doors to age abuse. There are situations of excruciating suffering where it is only humane to alleviate it. I don't know if this is unusual or not. With all the painkiller drugs I would think it would be uncommon. I can feel a Third Reich camaflouaged in folk songs and feel good coming on.......Cressie

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    3. Spot on, Cressie. Cost saving under the guise of compassion.

      I think there is a grey area at the very end of life, where modern medicine plays God as much in keeping people alive as it would in helping them to die. I think there is a valid conversation to be had there, about when it's appropriate to shift to palliative care that involves levels of pain killers that would shorten an already artificially extended life. But this law will be a blunt instrument incapable of such subtlety.

      The government and media will rely on emotion by bombarding us with extreme stories of suffering people 'denied' an end to their pain. But hard cases make mad law, even if we didn't have a parliament packed with some of the worst lawmakers I've ever seen.

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    4. "It's appropriate to shift to palliative care that involves levels of pain killers that would shorten an already artificially extended life."

      In my experience this already takes place, Lain. There eventually comes a point when opiates given to alleviate pain, not to end life, eventually kill the recipient.

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    5. Yes, I don't deny that (I didn't make my point clearly enough). I think there needs to be more honesty and openness about this happening, rather than it being an open secret, so that we can have a proper conversation about it.

      My concern is that this debate is falling into category error. Difficult, end of life cases are not the same as, for example, someone struggling to make ends meet while living with a disability. As with abortion, the extraordinary cases (rape, incest), will be used to justify its ordinary use.

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  6. One of my concerns with regards this 'debate' is how polarised it's getting. Yet again, we are having.debate about a serious topic where both sides are questioning the honesty, integrity and morals of their opponents.
    Just like Brexit and the independence vote.

    Our society is fracturing and is having real problem with having a grown up debate.

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    1. Yes, you're right. It seems to me that a good many people are supporting or opposing this, not because of any deep moral reasoning but because that's what their 'side' tells them to do.

      I'd say we have a problem with debating at all, not just in a grown up way. To debate means to present one's viewpoint and consider the other's viewpoint. What we have now is people so entrenched in their own worldview that it's become part of their identity screaming past each other with their fingers in their ears.

      We also have a political class who not only buy in to this kind of shallow identity-based thinking, but are so certain of their own moral superiority that they won't even listen to the peasants they govern. Why is assisted dying going to parliament? Because Starmer promised one of his celebrity mates he'd make time for it, never mind the little people. What are the details of the legislation? 'Vote for it and we'll sort it out later'. How did we get here?

      Complex ethical issues cannot be boiled down to black and white binaries like this. It shouldn't take the state longer to fix a pothole than it does to decide whether people should be allowed to take their own lives.

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  7. Here's a good summary of the arguments from both sides of the debate:

    https://www.bma.org.uk/media/4394/bma-arguments-for-and-against-pad-aug-2021.pdf

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  8. A very helpful article and comments here.

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  9. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/18/strong-economic-case-for-assisted-dying-taboo-britain/

    At least it's being honest.

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  10. Jack, I sent you a message, did you get it?

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    1. I did, Clive, just now. It went into my 'spam' folder. Unfortunately, I don't. Sorry.

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  11. Regrettably, the Reformed churches on the Low Countries have become Deformed, and barely churches for that. I fear the same coming to the Church of England, at least from the bishops if not the bulk of the clergy. Perhaps when I was in Canterbury recently I should have taken a set of theses to nail to the door, but Welby was still hanging on at that point.
    There are interesting points in the article, but leading to a point of what Hobbes noted as "This opinion of Inspiration, called commonly, Private Spirit". In short: spotting one apparent error and so thinking that you alone have a unique divine insight.
    The writer recognises that God created a hundred billion galaxies, and seems to conclude that he would not then bother to direct individual men and women, which is somewhat contradictory of the entire Bible, and the fundamentals of the Reformed faith.

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    1. "Direct" is not the word I would use, Little Hobb. God always leaves room for us to resist His graces - but He remains in control of history and ultimately His plan unfolds as He determines.

      As the Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of ‘predestination,’ he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace.”
      (CCC 600).

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    2. God guides us, rather than directs us - in the sense that a theatre director might direct actors on the stage. But we are usually too spiritually deaf and blind to see and hear him (hence we find echoes through the NT of Isaiah's assertion that when God comes to save us 'the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped'.)

      The aim of Christian life is to die to oneself, and be an imitator of Christ. This is the goal of Orthodox praxis, and is particularly distilled in the hesychastic ones. In Christ as man, we see the exemplar of what a human life looks like when one's human will is perfectly aligned with the Divine will - something very few of us achieve in this life. At that point, I suppose you could say that God 'directs' us, in a way, since one is so totally in synch with God's will - like a musician who loses herself in the flow becomes one with the music and the conductor, rather than sitting at her instrument with earplugs in and eyes closed.

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    3. Yes - I may have picked the wrong word there.

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  12. Stephen Cottrell in an exclusive interview with The Guardian (I know, what a shock), when he finishes trying to distance himself from Welby, says:

    He expected candidates [for the next ABC] to include some of his “excellent female colleagues”. He said: “I would welcome a woman into the role, not just because they’re a woman but because they will be the best person for the job.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/nov/18/c-of-e-may-need-to-rethink-archbishop-of-canterbury-role-senior-cleric-says

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