Catholic Archbishop - Medically Assisted Suicide ‘Feasible’

What is the truth?


CNA reports Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, president of the Pontifical Academy for Life, has spoken in support of legalised medically assisted suicide, calling it “feasible” despite the clear teachings of the Catholic Church against it.

“Personally, I would not practice suicide assistance, but I understand that legal mediation may be the greatest common good concretely possible under the conditions we find ourselves in,” Paglia said in a speech on April 19 during the International Journalism Festival in Perugia, Italy. The Italian archbishop’s remarks were part of a presentation that included a documentary about an Italian man who went to Switzerland to die by assisted suicide. A video of the discussion, in Italian, is available here.

The Italian news outlet Il Riformista published the text of Paglia’s speech on Saturday. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, “intentional euthanasia, whatever its forms or motives, is murder” and “gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and the respect due to the living God, his Creator” (No. 2324)

More recently, in 2020, the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith affirmed that teaching in its letter Samaritanus Bonus, “On the care of persons in the critical and terminal phases of life,” which was approved by Pope Francis. “The uninfringeable value of life is a fundamental principle of the natural moral law and an essential foundation of the legal order,” the letter states. “We cannot directly choose to take the life of another, even if they request it.”

Earlier this year, during his general audience on Feb. 9, Pope Francis said the dying need palliative care, not euthanasia or assisted suicide, saying: “We must accompany people towards death, but not provoke death or facilitate assisted suicide.”

In his remarks on April 19, Archbishop Paglia emphasized that the Church is not a “dispenser of truth pills” when it comes to engaging with a pluralistic society on the most challenging moral issues of the day.

“Theological thought evolves in history, in dialogue with the magisterium and the experience of the people of God (sensus fidei fidelium), in a dynamic of mutual enrichment,” Paglia said. Paglia pointed to Pope Francis’ decision in 2018 to revise the Catechism of the Catholic Church to state that the death penalty is “inadmissible.”

“The contribution of Christians is made within the different cultures, neither above — as if they possessed an a priori given truth — nor below — as if believers were the bearers of a respectable opinion, but disengaged from history,” Paglia continued. “Between believers and nonbelievers there is a relationship of mutual learning,” Paglia said. “As believers, therefore, we ask the same questions that concern everyone, in the knowledge that we are in a pluralistic democratic society. In this case, about the end of (earthly) life, we find ourselves all facing a common question: How can we reach (together) the best way to articulate the good (ethical plane) and the just (legal plane), for each person and for society?”

Paglia criticized the expansion of laws in some countries to permit involuntary euthanasia. At the same time, he said it was “not to be ruled out” that legalised assisted suicide “is feasible in our society,” provided certain conditions spelled out by a 2019 Italian constitutional court ruling are met. Specifically, he said, quoting from the court’s direction, “the person must be ‘kept alive by life-support treatment and suffering from an irreversible pathology, a source of physical or psychological suffering that he or she considers intolerable, but fully capable of making free and conscious decisions.’” The Italian House of Representatives has already approved such legislation, but not the Senate, he noted.

This is not the first time Paglia’s remarks on assisted suicide have stirred controversy. In 2019, answering a question about assisted suicide and whether a Catholic or a Catholic priest can be present at someone’s death by assisted suicide, Paglia told a small group of journalists that he would be willing to do so, because “the Lord never abandons anyone.”


In an exclusive interview with Church Militant, an authorized spokesperson for the Pontifical Academy for Life debunked the accusations against Paglia and offered an in-depth explanation of the thinking behind the archbishop's speech.
"Far from supporting assisted dying," the PAL spokesperson maintained, "the archbishop robustly challenged unbridled self-determination and the illusory individual 'freedom of choice' found in secular discussions of assisted suicide."
Archbishop Paglia's address was published on multiple sites, including the left-leaning Italian publication Il Riformista, which ambiguously headlined it, "The time has come for a law on assisted suicide."
In the context of a ruling by Italy's Constitutional Court, Paglia said that he would "personally, not take any part in assisted suicide," but he understands how "legislation set out under strict conditions in the Constitutional Court decision 242/2019 might offer the most concretely possible common good in our current circumstances."
"The person [requesting it] must be one who is being kept alive by life-support systems and who is suffering an irreversible medical condition that is causing bodily or mental suffering that he or she considers intolerable, but who is fully capable of making free and fully informed decisions," Paglia stressed, citing the conditions specified by the ruling.
Catholic news media and social media commenters erroneously interpreted the archbishop's speech that called for "legal mediation" to achieve the "greatest common good" in complex medical cases as greenlighting laws in support of assisted suicide.
"Paglia was challenging the current overemphasis on individual self-determination," the spokesperson explained. "He was incisively pointing out how self-determination in a world of 'others' can never be exercised in a truly human fashion without taking into account how one fulfills his or her obligation to 'others' (including the terminally ill)."
In fact, the archbishop's speech lamented how "encouragement to illusory individual 'freedom of choice' appears to have led all too often to medical choices being made by interested health care providers using their 'substituted judgment' in the case of persons with reduced decision-making capability."
Paglia was also critical of how "involuntary euthanasia [is] described euphemistically as simply 'deep sedation,'" the spokesperson added. The archbishop's position is that "faced with circumstances which erode autonomy rather than strengthening it, the Church's answer is to call for truly human 'accompaniment' of the dying."
"It is impossible, in a pluralistic world, to obtain voluntary and universal acceptance, in a foreseeable time frame, of the Church's belief in the inviolability of human life," the spokesperson reasoned. "In this light, the archbishop suggested that rather than acquiescing in the situation of growing, clearly lawless, misuse of the concept of freedom, society could, awaiting better days, counter such misuse through legislation that authoritatively and explicitly limits its possibility," the spokesperson stressed. "Even that suggestion, however, comes with a caveat: We see that the Italian Constitutional Court decision that de-penalizes assisting in a suicide has been applied unequally to differing cases," PAL told Church Militant. "Courts and legislators must be alert to the fact that inconsistency in enforcement is a serious threat to justice."
On Monday, PAL issued a statement reiterating Paglia's "'no' towards euthanasia and assisted suicide, in full adherence to the Magisterium" and observed that "any further elaboration is uncalled for." The statement pointed out Paglia's reference to the Italian Constitutional Court's sentence 242/2019 and the specific Italian situation the archbishop was addressing.
"The Constitutional Court held that assisting a suicide is a crime," the statement noted. "For Abp. Paglia, it is important that the decision holds that the criminality of the act remains the same and is not overruled."
On Friday, in an exclusive meeting with Church Militant, top personnel from PAL discussed ethical, theological and philosophical issues that had surfaced in recent months and affirmed that PAL retained a "total and unqualified commitment to life and to Catholic moral teaching on life issues."

Then there's this from Crisis Magazine

The president of the Pontifical Academy for Life, Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia, has exposed his contempt for life yet again. This time, he’s publicly endorsing assisted suicide while making a mangle of the Church’s moral authority.
First, Paglia channels his inner Mario Cuomo by stating, “Personally, I would not practice suicide assistance, but I understand that legal mediation may be the greatest common good concretely possible under the conditions we find ourselves in.” If the Archbishop were American, I would swear he sounds like he’s running for the Democratic presidential nomination.
But Paglia’s endorsement of assisted suicide isn’t the real problem; his anti-life views are just a symptom of his anti-Catholic morality. He dismisses the Church’s teaching authority by stating that the Church is not a “dispenser of truth pills.” Then he states, "The contribution of Christians is made within the different cultures, neither above — as if they possessed an a priori given truth — nor below — as if believers were the bearers of a respectable opinion, but disengaged from history."

“As if they possessed an a priori given truth?”—that’s exactly what the Church possesses! While Paglia is trying to sound humble, he’s actually expressing supreme arrogance. For he is assuming that the Church comes up with her own morality, as if it is man-made. Yet all that the Church possesses—including her moral teaching—has been given to her as a gift from above. Its source is God Himself, Who is Himself “a priori.”
In Paglia’s view of how the Church’s teachings comes about, she must interact with society to adapt her morality according to the latest findings of (pseudo-)science and the latest cultural fads. It is not given to her by God, through both reason (natural law) and revelation. Thus, even the command “thou shalt not kill” is up for debate and discussion and “development.” Such a view upends all of Church teaching; it is no longer founded on a rock, but on sand.
Paglia goes on to state, “Between believers and non-believers there is a relationship of mutual learning.” When it comes to settled moral teachings, this is simply false. Catholics have nothing to learn from non-Catholics, for to suggest this is to suggest that Catholics should no longer learn from God Himself but instead from fallen man. Again, it is arrogance masquerading as humility. Of course, the great scandal here is that the anti-life, anti-Catholic Paglia is the president of the Pontifical Academy for Life. Every day he remains in office diminishes the moral authority of that academy as well as the moral authority of the pope who oversees it.

Comments

  1. I understand that legal mediation may be the greatest common good concretely possible under the conditions we find ourselves in.

    What does this word salad mean?

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    1. See update to article ...

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    2. Did I just read a balanced CM article?

      I think there has to be some nuance in separating withdrawing care from those who are 'being kept alive by life-support systems and ... suffering an irreversible medical condition' and those booking a place at Dignitas because life is difficult. The first category needs a much deeper discussion about palliative care and allowing (rather than assisting) people to die. As I said on the last thread, death is too often seen as a 'failure state' by the healthcare profession and people's suffering is prolonged while increasingly fruitless 'final options' are exhausted.

      If someone is being kept alive artificially, it seems to me that we are already 'playing God' and interfering with that person's natural death.

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  2. Euthanasia comes from the Greek eu- meaning 'good or happy' and thanatos, meaning death. I find it interesting that a 'good death' now seems to be popularly understood solely as a painless one at a time of one's own choosing. I think it's also telling that the churches are once again conspiring with this co-opting of language: I hear Christian polemics about 'assisted dying' from both sides of the argument, but I rarely ever hear Christians talk about what it really means to have a good death.

    For Christians, a good death is a death in Christ; it's the patient participation in our own passio that leads up to death, and a final act of ultimate surrender to divine love. It's the opposite of Dylan Thomas' hugely popular secular exhortation 'Do not go gentle into that good night / Rage, rage against the dying of the light.'. It's always struck me how so many great spiritual figures seem to be given the gift of knowing when they will die. There are many accounts of Zen masters telling their disciples that they will die on such a date, being disbelieved and then being found dead in their meditation posture in the predicted morning.

    Similarly, the same stories are told about great Christian mystics. St. Theophan the Recluse was still writing on the afternoon of his death, but when his cell attendant brought him tea in the evening, he found that the saint had reposed, vested in his bishop's robes, on his bed with a smile on his face. Abba Sisoes was visited by St. Anthony, the prophets and Apostles before his death, begged the angels for time for 'a little more penance [for] I do not think I have even made a beginning yet', then announced 'look, the Lord is coming!' and reposed.

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  3. It's getting harder and harder to understand the Church's teaching on anything, prelates being so entrenched in the world. "Compassion" is a much abused word these days, and seems to be the go-to virtue for anyone advocating anything off the radar like assisted suicide. It might profit us all to study up a little on compassion -- or mercy, as Aquinas calls it -- and understand it's not a complete pass for whenever you want to leave the reservation.

    In his discourse on whether mercy is the greatest virtue, Aquinas says, "...of all the virtues which relate to our neighbor, mercy is the greatest, even as its act surpasses all others, since it belongs to one who is higher and better to supply the defect of another, in so far as the latter is deficient." But he goes on to say, "The sum total of the Christian religion consists in mercy, as regards external works: but the inward love of charity, whereby we are united to God preponderates over both love and mercy for our neighbor."

    So, going by Aquinas (and any Catholic who doesn't is a fool) mercy towards our neighbour is secondary to charity, theologically defined as the love of God for his own sake, and of our neighbour for the sake of God. This is a hard answer, but not an unclear one. Or at least, not as unclear as Bishop Paglia's.

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    1. This is what Chesterton alluded to when he said that the worst fallout from the rejection of Christianity wouldn't be vices run amok, but unchecked virtues running amok. Compassion and wisdom (rooted in God, for the Christian) are two wings of the same bird, and it can't fly with only one. I think it was Jordan Peterson who pointed out that anyone who thinks that pure compassion is a desirable trait should try inadvertently walking between a mother bear and her cub.

      I think that Aquinas' distinction between mercy and love of God is a little arbitrary (in this quotation, at least, I'm sure the wider context helps): there is no true mercy towards our neighbour unless it's united to the love of God, and there's no true love of God unless it's united to mercy towards our neighbour (1 Jn. 4:20). The 'compassion' of the 'be kind' movement - which uses it to justify euthanasia, abortion, transitioning kids, etc. - is a false compassion rooted neither in love nor wisdom, but in the ego.

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  4. Archbishop Vincenzo Paglia has been the president of the Pontifical Academy for Life since 2016. Before that he was the president of the Pontifical Council for the Family, appointed by Pope Benedict in 2012. His views on life, the family, and sexuality have always been controversial. He attracted international attention, at least among Catholics, as long ago as 2007, when he was the bishop of Terni, a city in central Italy, halfway between Rome and Perugia. He had commissioned a large mural for his cathedral that turned out to be of a nature described in the media as “homoerotic”. Among a group of nearly nude male figures, bishop Paglia himself was portrayed, wearing little else than his episcopal zucchetto.

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  5. Prof Generaliter26 April 2023 at 18:18

    To return for a moment to an argument made by myself and Lain in the previous post and that's in a secular society are we right to try and impose a Christian morality? What are we arguing? Are we saying that for someone who has no faith and is dying of a non treatable condition, which is likely to have an unpleasant end. Let's choose lung cancer for this example, where the patient will slowly die of a form of aphixiation . I've seen it happen and it's not pleasant or peaceful. Why? Because our God, who they don't believe in says so.

    I can't see it being a winner argument.

    Dying in pain or fear or uncontrollable panic or anxiety isn't fun. I'm sure we will all have seen someone die and acknowledge it's not pleasant.

    So why should they listen?

    Medical treatment has moved on massively from what was possibly in 1st century AD. And the changes can be a mixed blessing.

    I think this is a difficult topic in today's culture, we want to be true to our faith, but we need to acknowledge that the issues have become more complicated because of what medicine can do today.

    In truth frequently I don't think we know as a society when the euthanasia line is being crossed anymore.

    And the church has lost a lot of moral authority for various well known reasons. So why should it be listened to?

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    1. You're quite right. If the Church (or any faith group) wants to make an argument about secular morality (and be listened to) it has to do so in non-religious terms. Otherwise, as you said, you end up with simply telling people that the God they don't believe in loves them so much that he wants them to experience pain and discomfort for as long as possible before they die (and will probably then chuck them into hell anyway for being dirty heathens). If God is truth and truth is baked into natural law, and the Church cannot come up with a defence of the intrinsic value of human life that doesn't rely on the ultimate appeal to authority, then it's a poor show all round.

      I think there are at least three categories that need to be considered in the euthanasia debate:

      1) those who are terminally ill, suffering and being kept alive medically.
      2) those who are terminally ill, but not yet suffering significantly.
      3) those who aren't terminally ill but are unhappy with their quality of life.

      I can see a case for assisting people in (1) to die more easily. I think there is a difference between allowing to die and killing. We have already interfered in their natural lifespan by prolonging it medically, so the 'playing God' argument is void. There also absolutely needs to be a discussion about 'thou shalt not kill but need not strive, officiously to keep alive'.

      My main concern, which doesn't need a religious argument, is that governments have proven themselves again and again to be incapable of introducing laws such as these without mission creep. What was once the slippery slope fallacy now seems to be the action plan. One need only look at how abortion is used to target disabled children. Once the idea of assisting someone with, say, a month left to live to die is normalised it becomes easier to say - why not someone with six months left to live; then, why not someone with a year; why not someone just diagnosed; why not anyone who feels depressed and useless. Then it's a simple step to 'you're old, depressed and useless. Should you really be burdening your poor family members like this? Sign here!'

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    2. Prof Generaliter26 April 2023 at 20:37

      I agree with your last point and Lady Warnock in an article in the Church of Scotland paper Life and Work said essentially that. Dementia sufferers who weren't willing to be euthanised where selfish parasites who were being unfair to their family.

      BUT, suppose they were able to show a process where this issue could be eliminated, does that then mean euthanasia would be a reasonable and acceptable way ahead?

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    3. I remember that; it was a particularly unpleasant article. What a temptation for the state, too, given the vast costs of caring for people with dementia and similar conditions.

      From a strictly non-religious point of view, if we value bodily autonomy then I think that there are very few convincing arguments against allowing a mentally competent adult to decide to end their own life. Without unconsciously stealing from religion, there is no particularly strong case for life having intrinsic value in secular thought (and our willingness to throw lives away in war and exchange the lives of children for cheap consumer goods and car batteries suggests that the value of life is actually quite utilitarian).

      The only strong secular arguments I've seen are mostly those I've already mentioned - abuse of the system, psychological pressure to end one's life, 'bracket creep', eroding of safeguards and physician stress and guilt. IF it were guaranteed that these could be eliminated, almost all euthanasia would be reasonable and acceptable, from a secular viewpoint. But I don't think it's possible to eliminate them; I think that they're guaranteed to happen and that the dangers of them happening outweigh the benefits in pain relief to those who'd seek out euthanasia.

      From a religious point of view, I think we have to be clearer that 'euthanasia' isn't one thing. There's a huge gap between medically assisted dying for those being medically kept alive in the last stages of terminal illnesses (which happens in all but name, anyway; the lines are very blurred here), and a free-for-all suicide booth on every street corner. I think that the former is arguably permissible within a Christian framework, especially in light of modern medicine's ability to (overly) prolong life.

      Instead of just saying 'no', churches need to be more involved in the palliative care movement (hospices were an invention of the Church in the first place). They need to be better at teaching the faithful how to die and that it's OK to do so (the Orthodox are criticised for being morbid with our skulls everywhere and so much focus on death, but I think it's healthy to keep our end before our eyes). And when the Church speaks to the world, it needs to be life-affirming rather than simply death-denying. The Church is very good at telling people what not to do, but not so good at giving them alternatives.

      What do you think? I sense that you think it's a more nuanced argument than simply having a blanket ban.

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    4. Prof Generaliter27 April 2023 at 15:32

      It is and it has to be. Once you allow medical intervention to mask all pain allowing that by doing so as person will die sooner as a direct result, you are already accepting euthanasia in reality. What Bell below has warmed against already happens with the churches approval.

      We have to be honest, palliative care helps, but isn't yet effective in all circumstances for various reasons.
      When my mum died, because of the rules surrounding the administration of pain killers and the avoidance of premature death, she suffered pain . Even though she was in a coma the pain caused her distress. Why would it be wrong to halt her suffering?

      We are not being honest, and are hiding behind church teaching which is arguably out of date, because it hasn't kept abreast with what is medically possible.

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    5. We have to start taking palliative care seriously, I think. It has a lot more potential to relieve suffering and there's no reason that people should be in as much pain as they are at the end of their lives. As a society, we're still under the illusion that dying is 'wrong', so we invest all of our money into trying to stop people dying, then give up on them when we can't 'fix' them. It's ridiculous that hospices rely so much on charitable donations. The interim head of Hospice UK said last year:

      End of life care provision is currently delivered by a patchwork of providers and funded by a mixture of public, private and charitable sources. In its current form, the system is inefficient and wouldn’t be tolerated in other areas, such as maternity services.

      I'm sorry to hear what happened to your mum. I haven't experienced that with a relative, but I've seen people in similar situations at the end of their lives; people whose life support has been removed and the family are waiting for them to die. In those cases, it's hard to see how we can justify not giving sufficient pain relief. In what sense is death premature when, without medical technology, the person would have died already?

      I don't think that church teaching is necessarily out of date, but the application of it is. How do we interpret 'do not kill' in a modern medical setting?

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    6. Prof Generaliter27 April 2023 at 17:46

      What they seem to be doing was chasing the pain. Instead of trying to get ahead and avoid the pain, they would relieve it when it became a problem. This way they could not be accused of bringing a life to premature and.
      You are quite right The teacher hasn't changed and needn't change but the application of it does..

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    7. Chasing the pain instead of getting ahead of it. That's very well put.

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    8. Prof Generaliter28 April 2023 at 14:28

      Then what about MND victims? The fear of dying isn't caused by pain but by the knowledge that you will cease being able to breath. Can you imagine the panic and fear of the last minutes? My mother in law could, for all of her final two years. At times she found the fear unbearable. Would it be to much to reassure someone that come the time, the death would be peaceful?

      There are many horrible ways to die

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    9. I came quite close to drowning at the beach when I was small, so I do have some inkling into that terror and wouldn't wish it on anyone. There are many ways to die, which I think is another significant problem with this debate: just as there's no one such thing as 'euthanasia' there's also really no such one thing as 'dying'. I knew a man whose mother had died quite unpleasantly of something heredity (I think it was Huntingdon's), who spent many years in terror that every dropped pencil was an indicator that he would die the same way. There certainly should have been some comfort that medicine could make that death peaceful.

      On the other hand, hard cases make bad law. It seems to me that the subject of dying isn't one that the blunt cudgel of legislation is equipped to deal with. The current status quo doesn't work; but the slope is already being greased in countries where assisted dying is legalised.

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    10. Prof Generaliter28 April 2023 at 15:44

      And you are right, especially with regards the last sentence. The problem is this issue isn't going to go away. I don't know what the answer is.

      I remember a hospice nurse friend of mine telling that dying from cancer is not the worse way to die.

      She wouldn't tell me what was.

      I think though a proper debate needs to be had. But the. Starting place has to be the needs of the sufferer and the needs of society, to stop the slippery slope to anything goes.

      I'm not sure if the two sides are reconcilable.

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  6. I'm pretty sure I posted a comment on this thread a few hours ago. Where's it gone?

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    1. Now rescued from "spam". Apologies, HJ has no control over this!

      Delete
  7. There are some reasonable arguments here on the subject of euthanasia, but they miss the point that, once it's admitted, like "limited" abortion, it quickly becomes the norm.

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    1. "The Church is not a “dispenser of truth pills” when it comes to engaging with a pluralistic society on the most challenging moral issues of the day"? To paraphrase the sainted atheist Stephen Fry: what's it for then?

      Pope Francis’ revision of the Catechism to state that the death penalty is “inadmissible”. Ah yes.

      Running for the Democratic presidential nomination.... a few of us on Cranmer did try to warn that Mr B*d*n might not be the best choice for Christians.

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    2. Prof Generaliter28 April 2023 at 13:27

      @GD, But would trump have been a better choice

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    3. In fairness to Francis, the Catechism had already been 'revised' before on this issue. In 1997, after Pope JPII penned Evangelium Vitae, the Catechism was amended to read:

      Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offence incapable of doing harm—without definitively taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself—the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent” .

      The Catholic Church has always taught that it's licitly within the power of the state to execute criminals if that is necessary to protect the public from danger. The teaching hasn't changed, but the application has (I'd argue that something similar could be said about just war theory, too). Francis is simply recognising that the modern world no longer needs to execute people to enforce the law. Capital punishment now effectively amounts to no more than vengeance (which is the Lord's); the fury with which some Catholics and statists responded to Pope Francis' suggestion that the state's power to kill people should be curtailed rather proved the point.

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    4. @Clive,
      Well, less ab*rt**n, less foreign wars, less fentanyl poisoning, less.... but you are right of course.

      Delete
    5. Prof Generaliter28 April 2023 at 14:41

      Anyone who mocks the disabled is without moral integrity. Trump would support abortion if he thought it would win him the election.

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    6. I'll go on then.
      ...less s*xual*z*tion of children in their schools (and less classifying of their parents as 'domestic terrorists' if they complain about it), less putting of biological male rapists in women's prisons, less targetting of traditional Catholics, less banning of cheap and effective treatments for COVID, less imprisonments without trial....

      Anyway, please feel free to look these issues up and have a nice weekend!

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    7. I don't think any politician has moral integrity. It's so depressing. When I look at the choices of Sunak v Starmer and Biden v Trump, I just want to crawl into a tub of chocolate ice cream and hibernate until it all goes away.

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    8. Prof Generaliter28 April 2023 at 15:06

      I'm not getting into an argument about this, what I will say is that neither of them would have received my vote. You also seem to be slipping into COVID conspiracy land and I'm certainly not going to involve myself on that on a blog about euthanasia.

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    9. @Clive,
      Conspiracy land? Quite apart from anecdotal evidence, there are official NIH reports about the effectiveness of Ivermectic, for example, and yet what was the narrative.... But these are unpleasant subjects, you are right, and I am also tired of them.

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    10. @ Lain

      Until the chocolate ice scream goes away?

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    11. @Jack

      The post-Lent chocolate coma already took care of that.

      Delete
  8. Has anyone seen this? Good and evil — what next?

    'Include the country in your prayers', says Tucker Carlson as he attacks abortion and trans rights - YouTube

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqL6EtKITuM

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    1. @ Neanderthal
      Welcome. Hope you're well.

      There's a good summary of this on TCW with access to a transcript here.

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    2. Hi there, Neanderthal!
      Well, yes. Not bad for an Episcopalian, as he himself might self-deprecatingly say.

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    3. There's a school of thought which holds that this speech is what got Carlson canned. Apparently, Murdoch's most recent next ex-wife (now demoted to the status of a mere ex-fiancee) was an evangelical who spent a dinner with Murdoch and Carlson discussing the implications of the Book of Exodus. Carson was theologically literate enough to hold up his end. Surprisingly, Murdoch was not. Who would have figured?

      Delete

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