Monday's Open Forum
War Crimes and Genocide in Gaza?
Back in May 2024, the question was posed: Has Israel lost the war against Hamas? To recap: Israel’s original intention for counter attacking Hamas - its “jus ad bellum,” - i.e. the conditions under which states resort to war - was to recue the hostages and also to eliminate Hamas because of its ongoing threat to Israel. It was not revenge for the horrors of October 7 th , 2023, although that was the immediate cause. It was about the damage that Hamas could do in the future given it stated intent to annihilate Israel. Is Israel aiming for a realistic, achievable goals? Rescuing hostages is a clear and potentially achievable end. But is eliminating Hamas possible? How do you reduce civilian casualties in the face of Hamas tactics? Is her present strategy producing more chaos? Is her approach encouraging future terrorist attacks on her. Is there an alternative approach? As the war goes on and civilian deaths rise, questions increasingly surface about Israel’s conduct ...
https://thefederalist.com/2023/11/18/pope-francis-removal-of-conservative-texas-bishop-exposes-more-cracks-in-the-vaticans-new-agenda/
ReplyDeleteAn article from a non-Catholic source opining on the goings on in Rome. Fun fact -- St Athanasius of Alexandria was excommunicated by the pope of the time. There is actually no record of that excommunication ever being lifted, which puts Marko Rupnik one up on St Athanasius. To quote John Lennon, strange days indeed.
The counter perspective:
DeleteWhoever supports this dissenter, knowing the above information, partakes of his sins, his quasi-schismatic, quasi-sedevacantist mentality, and his indefensible, utterly unCatholic rebellion. Don’t do it! If you don’t want — no longer believe in — a pope and the papacy that God has provided for you, become an Anglican or other kind of Protestant, or Orthodox, and cease annoying us with your anti-Catholic inanities and vapid polemics.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/davearmstrong/2023/11/tragic-bp-strickland-reaction-from-the-usual-suspects.html
A little harsh, and, may I say, quite unfair to imply that opposition to the actions of a specific pope is the same as opposition to the office itself. Jack may be unaware that the idea that the Holy Spirit chooses the pope is a very new and undogmatic one which dates only from about the time of the First Vatican Council. It has never been accepted as doctrine because if it were, it would mean the Holy Spirit chose John XII and Alexander VI, as well as all the other bad popes the Church has suffered over the centuries. However, if I am annoying Jack with my anti-Catholic inanities, I will cease and desist. I wish you well.
DeleteIs it harsh? Read the links.
DeleteAnd he's not saying the Holy Spirit "choose" this particular pope - just that God has provided Catholics with a papacy and His providence protects the Church. Any bishop who says or implies the things Bishop Strickland did, knows what's coming.
Did the Pope call Gaza war "genocide"? A Gazan says he did, the Vatican says he didn't (Reuters)
ReplyDeletehttps://www.reuters.com/world/pope-says-conflict-between-israel-hamas-has-gone-beyond-war-terrorism-2023-11-22/
So one has to choose whether to believe Hamas representatives (do they speak Italian?) or the Vatican.
DeleteNow I’ve managed to comment even anonymously (after several days) I’ve almost forgotten what I wanted to say. And things have moved on since then.
ReplyDeleteNeanderthal Èireannach
Oh dear ....
DeleteJORDAN – On Tuesday, November 21st, 2023, H.B. Card. Pierbattista Pizzaballa, Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem arrived in Jordan and will be spending time with the faithful there for a week.
ReplyDeleteThat is the opening sentence of an announcement posted yesterday on the website of the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem (link below). In a departure from the Patriarchate’s usual practice, the trip was not announced in advance, suggesting that it was arranged in a hurry. Also, again in sharp contrast to the usual procedure, no program has been released — no meetings with the king or Jordanian officials, no Mass times, nothing. This is just my conjecture, but it looks as though an order came through from Rome that the cardinal was go to Amman immediately to do whatever he can, and speak to everybody he can, to help put an end to the Gaza war. If that is indeed what is going on, may God inspire him and give him strength to negotiate a just and lasting solution to the Israeli-Palestinian standoff.
https://www.lpj.org/posts/card-pierbattista-first-visit-to-jordan-after-his-elevation.html
Is a "a just and lasting solution to the Israeli-Palestinian standoff" possible without Divine intervention?
DeleteWho knows, maybe Patriarch Pizzaballa could even be the instrument of God's intervention?
DeleteLet's pray that it might be so. HJ has supported Israel up to now, but enough is enough and she is now going beyond any reasonable sense of proportionality with the continuation of bombing civilian areas.
DeleteSo on the day the government released politically damaging nett migration figures, Holland votes for a right wing anti Islam, anti immigration fire brand, could it ever happen here?
ReplyDeleteIt could ... all Western societies are polarising. Wonder if events in the Middle East and the anti-Israeli demonstrations influenced voters.
DeleteI wonder whether our first past the post electoral system makes it unlikely? Yes I would not be surprised if the demonstrations didn't have an effect. There does appear to have been a late surge in support.
DeleteDublin is another example - stabbing (apparently) by an immigrant resulted in anti-immigration riots and hooliganism there.
DeleteWhich in a way is understandable, if still wrong. My point isn't that the UK won't generate anti immigration politicians, but that our political system will make it very difficult for them to gain political power.
DeleteWhether that is moral or healthy for a society as a whole is another matter.
Agreed - but who knows? Democracies have a way of shifting the "centre ground" when it suits politicians in search of power.
DeleteWell that's true.
DeleteThe Dublin rioters and hooligans conveniently overlooked the fact that the biker who tackled the assailant and wrestled him to the ground was also an immigrant from a third-world country.
ReplyDeleteThe Pope is being treated for an inflammation of the lungs and has cancelled some of his planned appointments for today. However, the Vatican says he is still planning to fly to Dubai on Friday morning, four days from now.
ReplyDeletehttps://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2023/11/25/231125b.html
It's more serious for Pope Francis as he has one lung.
DeleteYes, Jack, it caught my attention that they took care to write "lungs" in the plural. I know he had part of one lung removed when he was in his twenties, before he was ordained (I think), but I don't know how much of it the surgeons took out and how much (or how little) of it they left him with.
Delete